To be upset that my old employees reference cost me my new job ?!

[stuckintheblastingsnow]

Posted this on Chat but figured I would get more traffic here.

I am a bit upset. I applied for a new job, got invited for an interview, the new job contacted me and said “ We really liked you etc. But you have been unsuccessful—- I asked “Thanks blah blah, why have I been unsuccessful — they replied “You fitted our profile and you came across well in your interview, but we had a few concerns with one of your references, especially with reliability”.

To give a backstory. I joined a school, on a voluntary basis, this was part of getting onto a course which I needed experience in, before they can accept me onto the course.

Anyway, I joined this school, met with one of the managers, at the voluntary place, she agreed to take me on, though specifically requested I work for two days, but on specific days, Thursday and Monday. I told her, the other day would be fine, but Thursday would be really difficult as that’s the day that I agreed for my course interviews to take place, but school meetings so forth, as Thursday is the only free day I have. I also worked part time elsewhere. The manager seemed to have understood and said “If you have any interviews and other things taking place on Thursdays, that would be fine, we’ll see you when you can make Thursdays.

Fast forward now, I’ve been getting a couple of interviews from the courses I applied to, which of course took place on Thursdays. Warned the school prior about it etc. I also felt a weird vibe around the manager. For example, she would sulk if I was seen chatting to one of her best friend, who is also a colleague. She would snap at me if I do something wrong, she always had a mood around me. Plus, looked very shocked when I told her best friend, as both me and her have applied to the same course, “That I got into the course”. Anyway, I didn’t let it all that bother me.

Just last week, I received an email from that same manager telling me “That they were letting me go as they’ve got a high amount of volunteers and they would like to give everyone a chance to volunteer as they don’t want too many people working in the school, thought happy to give a reference etc”.

Fair enough. However, I was a bit shocked as it was out of the blue and no way did the manager tell me that the placement would only be for a certain of months. I sensed bullshit and emailed back to the manager... something over the lines of “I assume I’m being let go because of missing my Thursdays placement... though I did warn you that such and such were conducting on these days, plus if you (she) had any concerns I would of appreciated if you spoke to me about it. We could of discussed alternative days etc”.

The manager emailed back and said that basically I got the wrong end of the stick.

Back to my original OP. I am a bit upset. My current part time job gave me a good reference, I have been working there for years, but really upset the reference, coming from the manager at the school, cost me this job.

Should I just let it go? I really want to request to see the reference, that the manager at the school wrote about me. I did ask the job I applied to, if I could see the reference. However, they told me that “they shred every unsuccessful references”.
hmm

Apart of me just wants to let this go and move on.

rjay it’s a private, small, specialist school.

@quizzybear

There is nothing at all unlawful about giving a negative reference provided it is factually accurate.

If an employer gives a reference which is factually inaccurate and the employee suffers a loss as a result then they can claim in 'negligent misstatement' against the writer of the reference. This is why many employers only give dates and job roles as they won't want to take the risk.

The same is true if it is a voluntary position.

OP I would be asking for a copy of the reference from the school.

If they don't want to give you a copy of the reference, you can always make a data subject access request. They would then by law have to provide you with any information about you held on a computer (which should cover the reference as well). Maximum they can charge you for this is £10

I don’t want to put the school in any sort of trouble as it’s not the school I have an issue with, it’s the manager.

Salted How can I request, nicely, to the manager that I would like to see the reference that she provided ? Even though I would be thinking, you Bitch, bitch, bitch

It's not legal to give a 'negative' reference - you can refuse to give one or you can offer only the facts of employment (salary, hours worked, sick days etc) but you can't say anything negative

This is total nonsense. You are allowed to be negative if it's justified. You can say that someone was dismissed for theft, or consistently poor timekeeping, or had a stand up fight with Gary from accounts after the Christmas do - if that all happened. You might get yourself into hot water by making statements such as "unreliable" or "not a team player" if you can't produce evidence to back that up. However you ARE allowed to give a factual, negative reference.

Is it worth you approaching the firm which made you an offer to explain?

I doubt this bitch manager will give you her shitty reference.

The school are responsible for the manager. Make a complaint.
Don't understand how you thought giving them as ref is good idea

Ask to meet with the head teacher of the school to discuss your reference. I am sure he/she would be able to provide a copy of the reference the manager gave as it must be filed somewhere.

Well, I emailed my manager, where I was volunteering, thanked her for applying a reference on my behalf but that I wish to request the reference that she supplied to the job I applied to. Otherwise I have no choice but to submit a ‘subject to access’ request.

I would make a formal request for the reference. On the surface a petty grievance could have cost you a job.

Well you could ask her nicely OP as a first option, but a verbal request probably wouldn't get you anywhere if she has given you a shitty reference. If you go down the DSAR route, they don't have any choice but to give it to you. Might be her fault and not the school, but she's employed by the school, so it's their responsibility to make sure everyone is acting appropriately. She didn't have to provide a reference - she could have ignored it, or just given the basics (what you were volunteering for and how long you were there). But she deliberately chose to make a point about your reliability and they also said there were "a few concerns" - so what else has she said?

They are the employer, just to be clear. You are the employee.
They could have agreed a bland reference with you, but probably mentioned absence which would be red flag to new or prospective employer, tho they could have asked you about it.

I know Missing I wasn’t thinking straight. I did sigh and ahh about it. But I figured because the manager said and quoted, when she basically fired me, that she was “Happy to provide me with a reference” I took that as an olive branch. Oh stupid, stupid me.

References are confidential although many times you can request a copy. It is strange that the new employer has told you that you were not chosen based on this. It is not meant to be done and I bet he or she has taken a risk to 'help' you in future jobs.
Don't use the same person for references again. Negative references normally say more about the person who writes them than the candidate. However, it is just not possible to hire someone when you have got a bad reference.
Be grateful you were warned and act accordingly.

”But she deliberately chose to make a point about your reliability and they also said there were "a few concerns" - so what else has she said?”

That’s what I want to know too. Knowing the manager, she most probably didn’t give a bland reference but a detailed account. It was obvious the manager didn’t like me for whatever reason, but I didn’t let this effect the way I worked whilst volunteering at the school.

Im very tempted to call the new job back. But in honesty, they were looking for someone ASAP and probably already appointed another potential applicant.

Cama I know I was a bit shocked too. I thought they probably would of mentioned “That they didnt feel I came across well in my interview or I didn’t meet the job requirements that they were looking for”. I was a bit taken back that she mentioned my reference but wasn’t surprised.

Ah well, I better keep on looking.

You have the right under freedom of information act to see a copy of your reference.

OP I think you are jumping the gun a bit here. If they were asked to comment on your periods of absence then they may well have stated that you missed 5 days - if it was written as 5 periods of absence in 7 months then the company may have decided for themselves that that makes you unreliable. You would need to have explained immediately when they said your ref showed you as unreliable, so they can understand your position. The manager may well have been factual in the reference, you don't yet know.

I do think you have cause for complaint about this reference. As one it wasn't a paid job and two you did tell them you would have difficulty in working on the Thursdays. Don't use them as a reference again. Not sure if you have any come back but you have a right to be furious over the way the whole thing was handled.

Duke You could be right. I will wait till I see the reference. But due to the manager, basically firing me out of the blue, snapping at me, being odd and cold around me, sulking when she seems me becoming close to one of her closest collegues. It seems like she gave a full detailed account.

Though your right, I should of explained immediately. I was just a bit taken back. I didn’t expect the new employer to tell me I was unsuccessful “because of their concerns of what the reference said”. To be honest, she wasn’t obliged to tell me this anyway, so I didn’t want to explain.... urgh Idk.

I would email the people who interviewed you.

Say that further to your feedback that your reference stated you were unreliable - you want clarification of what exactly that indicated and meant. That you were a volunteer with an agreement to work Mondays and any Thursday's you did not have interviews for a course. And that's exactly what you did.

I’m confused because I think your quotations are in the wrong person? The direct quote from the manager should say they were letting YOU go, not ME, or is the manager, the person sending the message, being let go too? Does that explain anything as to why she’s behaving like this?

Sorry Abra. When I was writing my post, I did it in a haste as I was quite upset. But yes, the manager said “The school are letting you (Me) go”.