WIBU to be honest about my experience with with childminder?

[Xuli]

Several years ago we moved DD(3) to a new CM, let's call her Jane. Jane lived very near to us and advertised very clearly she would be doing collections etc from the local school and its nursery. This was the only reason we changed from a lovely CM, as we were planning for the future. When I met Jane we talked about this and she said yes, she was planning to cover just that school and nursery, and yes she would be able to take DD full time at that point and start taking her to that nursery once she got her funded sessions.

Fast forward 8 months or so and we get to the day when nursery and school places were allocated and Jane calls me to say that her own small children had got into a different school the other side of town and so she wouldn't be able to cover our nursery, and so was giving us 4 weeks notice that she wouldn't be able to take DD any longer (and did the same to another parent too, we found out later). This was a complete surprise, especially the 4 weeks notice as it was only April and the school/nursery changes would happen in September. We had to put DD in a less well rated local nursery (unsurprisingly the only one with places!) but in the end it was fine, DD loved it, I sort of forgot about it.

I rarely saw Jane but did about a year ago when she said she was giving up childminding to start a new business from home.

Not long after I went meet a potential CM for baby DS and was pleasantly surprised to see this CM had Jane's old assistant, Emma, working as her assistant. It came out in conversations over the next month or so with Emma and the new CM that Jane had given Emma, who was working pretty much full time for Jane, 4 weeks notice to find a new job as Jane had suddenly decided to give up childminding and start a business from home.

Yesterday evening I got a message on FB from another mum I vaguely know asking how I found Jane as a CM. It seems Jane has changed her mind and has started childminding again.

Now obviously it was completely within Jane's right to choose which school she felt was best for her children and so to change her mind about being able to cover our local school. However I've always felt it might have been... polite, I don't know, to have mentioned it to those of us parents who were looking for the local nursery so we had a vague heads up our plans might change. Maybe that would be expecting too much though. Anyway, I've been asked for feedback now. On a day to day level I felt Jane was fine with the kids but now I know she's been chopping and changing a lot, dipping in and out of childminding, taking on an assistant then dropping them - as a future parent, would you want to know that? Or would that be sour grapes on my behalf, and I should just say Jane looked after DD fine?

(Sorry, that turned out longer than I thought!)

I don't think it's fair or right to comment on anything that didn't have directly to do with your employment of Jane - so, I wouldn't discuss how you think she has chopped and changed her work subsequently. That's really subjective.

I do think you're right to give an entirely honest opinion of the time you employed her, including why that ended. Can you try and keep it objective 'We chose Jane because we were forward planning and she said she could take DD to a specific nursery. She then changed her mind and said that she could not do that, and gave us 4 weeks notice' and exclude the subjective 'I did feel disappointed by that'.

Then it's up to the future employer to decide what to do with that reference. Personally as an employer I would not be concerned about this - plans change - and would be more concerned about the quality of care your DC were getting - but your FB friend might feel differently.

Well she hadn't done anything wrong, so you shouldn't give an overly critical reference.

However you can certainly say something along the lines of "her care was good and our child was safe and happy with her; however she was unable to offer us the longer term stability we had been assured of and so we had to find alternative childcare".

Just tell her the truth. I think you are right to feel put out by it and you can just say that is how you feel.

Just stick to the facts and let the other person decide. Choosing a childminder is a big decision and people have a right to know the facts.

I think this is pretty unfair. If you wanted to have more notice of any changes, you really should have put it in writing or in the contract -- e.g. that both ways round, each party would give three months' notice. Or whatever.

I do think that with 'unspoken' assumptions, the responsibility lies with you for not having made it clearer. You wouldn't expect an employer to give you a bad reference, if you had done a good job, just because your circumstances changed and you now wanted a job in another town. Would you?

I think Jane's problem is that she guaranteed OP and another parent a specific service, without being able to guarantee it.Then she decided to drop them within 4 weeks despite there being a few months of leeway.
As a business person Jane shouldn't have promised a service she can't guarantee and could have allowed both parents to continue in her service until they found alternative provisions, as it was her fault.

Yes, that sums it up better than I did.

However of course she should be allowed to change her work and more importantly make the right decision for her own children. I suppose it was the lack of notice that always left me feeling disappointed about it all.

But thanks everyone for the feedback, I will use some of the phrasing above and be polite. I've no desire to prevent Jane from working in anyway, I just didn't want to do the wrong thing by the other parent either

Of course you can be honest.
Jane doesnt sound the most proffesional and reliable childminder and I would warn you friends of this.

OP you sound very fair and considerate. I see nothing wrong with telling the full story - this veering between expecting you to have consideration of her as a person and also to treat her as a business is tricky. It doesn't have to be a 'bad' or 'good' reference, just an honest appraisal.

How many of you would be happy if your employer put a negative spin on a reference because you gave notice as required by your contact? There's a horrible attitude towards childminders here. They are not slaves and are entitled to change jobs. If you want more notice don't sign a contract that has a 4 week notice period.

• Just a small niggle to a PP - a person doesn't employ a CM - they are self employed and offer a service that you choose to make use of.

*OP Lack of notice? terms were agreed on signing contract, including the 4 week notice. If that was not enough you should have renegotiated at the time.

I assume it would have been entirely unexpected for the school place to have been allocated at a different school, nothing she could have planned for.

All you need comment on is her caring ability.

It wasn't unexpected that she got a place at a different school, she chose an out of catchment school to apply to. Which for me is where I wouldn't have minded a little heads up. But that's by the by. Probably what always niggled me - she knew for months beforehand that she was probably not going to be able to do what she had advertised

Maybe the school was second or third on her list and she was hoping to get one closer. I had to put out of catchment schools when I applied as there just weren't enough decent ones in our borough. It is what it is. You seem to be intent on believing she did something wrong, she didn't.

Sorry, you're right, that wasn't fair of me. Trust me when I say I'm not mentioning anything like that to the other mum!

If you sign a contract that stipulates a 4 week notice period, then you've got no grounds to complain when you're given 4 weeks notice.

I agree that people expect different things from childminders to a normal business arrangement. He circumstances changed, she gave you the agreed notice, there's no more to it than that.

Just say you needed more support and reliability so needed a nursery?

I'd be honest. Jane was unreliable. I wouldn't recommend her in your position and I would explain why. Some posters on here wouldn't have an issue with what she did, but I would and I would want to know.

she views childminding as something to pay the bills

What, like, one of those 'job' things? Fancy that.

It's not an employer's reference though is it as CMs run their own business (employing the assistant etc) so more a testimonial.

I would be honest. Is local school heavily oversubscribed making it likely she was offered her second or third choice at further away school.

The bit I didn't quite explain in my op was that our local school wasn't oversubscribed and she would have got in. She chose to apply to a school the other side of town that was out of catchment, which of course she should do if she feels it's the best for for her children. But it meant that she was actively choosing to not be able to fulfil what she had said she would do for two people who chose to use her business.

I absolutely agree that she's not done anything wrong and I haven't said anything negative at all in my reply to the other mum.

But I do know that personally I've always been a bit narked that she knew getting into her first choice school would mean she wouldn't be able to do what me and this other parent had partly chosen her for, and then when that happened she gave us just 4 weeks notice, much earlier than the actual time she would be able to mind the children until before school became an issue. But that's what a lot of people tell me IABU about so I will accept that!

Maybe she planned to use the local school but then something changed that affected her decision and the out of catchment school was then the better choice for her DC. You have no idea what the thought process was behind her choosing that school or at which point her mind changed so it would be rather spiteful to mention that as a negative to this prospective parent especially when a further change of pick-up school is now highly unlikely (I'm guessing this other mum has DC at the same school Jane uses?). She gave you four weeks notice in plenty of time to enable you to find alternative childcare before school started. As for what Emma the Assistant has said, you've only got her word for what happened and why she was given notice so, unless you've heard Jane's side of the story, it would again be spiteful to mention it.

As an aside to a couple of PP, childminders are not employees. You do not employ a childminder and you do not get to dictate their working practices. They are self-employed, you use their services by contract and they set their own terms and conditions.

Even with that update it doesn’t change anything. She has to put her family first and the reasons for her choice are none of your business.

I’ve been there, it sucks when you lose a childminder but stop holding it against her. She’s doing right for her family as you do for yours.

MotherforkingShirtballs 'you use their services by contract and they set their own terms and conditions'

Nicknacky 'She’s doing right for her family as you do for yours'

Both these might be the case but it sounds like she promised something she didn't deliver, and might have had an inkling she wouldn't be able to deliver. She may not have done something wrong technically, but she hd a negative impact on people by witholding information that might have led them to not having her as a cm. I'd tell the whole story to the person looking for the reference. It isn't a 'negative spin' it is an honest account of what happened and why you don't have her as a cm anymore.

Get her to read this thread