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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Who is unreasonable in this situation?

199 replies

Catspaws · 26/03/2018 14:26

I'm presenting this as fairly as I can. Once I've seen some responses I'll let you know if I'm Person A or Person B! It's long and probably quite petty but bear with me...

Person A and Person B live in side by side detached houses. In front of the houses is a square of garden. Each house owns exactly half of the square.

Person A moved into the house last year. On the date of moving in, there is a large, empty, circular flower bed in the middle of the shared garden. It crosses the boundary between the gardens.

Person B pops round to Person A's house within a week of Person A moving in to say that the flower bed was going to have a weeping cherry planted in it and that the previous owners of Person A's house had agreed to this, as it would look nice. Person B wants to know if Person A has an issue with it. Person A says no, that's fine.

Tree duly planted, small border of bricks, flowers under tree in bed. All good. Person A and Person B have no formal agreement but more or less share any minor gardening required (e.g. weeding). Neighbourly harmony is free flowing.

However... the houses are on an estate with a factor who does occasional inspections. Following a recent inspection Person A and Person B receive a notice from the factor addressed to 'the owner of the plot with with tree' informing them that it breaches the conditions of the estate and that there will be a £250 fine plus tree needs removed.

Person B visits Person A and suggests the fine is split down the middle. Their reasons: both parties agreed to tree, both have maintained it, both have benefitted from it looking pretty in the front garden and adding to the curb appeal of the properties.

Person A refuses. Their reason: they only agreed to be polite, it is very much Person B's tree which just happens to be on a bit of their garden, they took no responsibility for it when saying it could be planted.

So... who is right here?!

OP posts:

Lindsxxx · 27/03/2018 20:35

Person a and person b should dig said tree up, plant a bush and say “what cherry tree?!” 😁

SnorkFavour · 27/03/2018 22:26

I think Diddl has a point when they suggest that a breach would have the option to just be rectified first.

I think before any of you pay, you should seek further advice.

In this case, where no damage has been done, you may be able to argue that the fine is disproportionate to the crime.

And much as I HATE the rag 'news'papers for stealing peoples personal misery and using it because they're lazy, I think in this case publicity might make the 'finer' back down. If the tree hasn't been there for long it really won't have caused any damage.

I also think the pot is a good idea too but I'd find a way to try and cement the pot into the ground to prevent theft.

Oh and I think person A is in the right re the fine - it's just that the fine is ludicrous. Definitely take it further and please update us :)

bunbunny · 28/03/2018 00:06

I would also ask what the difference is between a tree and a shrub and a plant to see if there is any leeway within the rules that have been imposed to say that your tree is not actually a tree iyswim

Guess it depends if your weeping cherry is a dwarf variety or not and how they have actually worded it - and see how they define tree (or whatever they use...) - looking on the internet although everybody knows what a tree is, when you come to looking at the precise definition, where the boundaries are between shrubs and trees and bushes and plants... there's lots of variety. Some say trees have to be at least 13 foot high. Others don't. Or they say 'considerable height' which you could argue a dwarf tree (if that is what you have) isn't...

If you have household insurance check to see if you have legal cover on it - usually (not guaranteeing this - everybody's will be different!) this is the sort of thing you can ask them without any cost implications for the advice or your insurance premium.

RavenclawRealist · 28/03/2018 00:20

Like PP I'd email and see what is the fine if the tree is removed? It's possible if you agree to remove the tree ASAP the fine could be waved! If not then I would weigh up the price of good neighbourly relations. While the tree was b's idea both of you are responsible for checking the deeds/Covent whatever covers the land and a didn't check either or even seem to question it, so there is shared responsibility. I would pay £125 to keep a neighbour with shared land on side but then I have had neighbor issues in the past and found it ruins a home so for me it would be worth it if this was somewhere I planned to stay. Plus legally (I'm no expert) if B refuses to pay more than half, would A have a leg to stand on?

Maursh · 28/03/2018 05:38

What do you deeds say about the planting of trees? have you read them?

Freyanna · 28/03/2018 06:00

I think person A is in the right, B should pay the fine.

What a nerve even asking for A to pay half!

Are they trying it on?

I would be annoyed but I know my partner would pay up to keep the peace.

Emaline · 28/03/2018 06:30

I totally agree with you that it isn't your responsibility to pay the fine but agree with other posters about neighbourly relations. Unless you really cannot afford £125 then it's worth thinking about long term enjoyment of your home no matter how right you are.

What I would do is move the tree asap and jointly challenge the fine. It's ridiculous that they can impose this without a warning and chance to comply first, no matter what the paperwork says. So glad I don't live on a new build estate.

LeighaJ · 28/03/2018 06:33

Person B wanted the tree and should have obtained permission for it, therefore they brought the fine on themselves and should pay it alone.

Original poster

Catspaws · 28/03/2018 06:46

Thank you so much for the advice everyone!

I don't think the fine is £250 each but have sent an email to the factor to clarify and also to ask if there is scope for a reduction if the tree is just removed.

House is on a development that's 3 years old and maintained by a factor so there are rules that all of the houses are subject to. I admit it's my fault for not checking before saying the tree was fine with me, it didn't occur to me that it wouldn't be! I still think it's a stupid rule. I've read the rules now to avoid future mishaps - I should be fine as long as I don't start keeping livestock in my garden

I think I'm going to just have to pay up for the sale of neighbourly good will but I do think my neighbour is a bit cheeky to ask!

OP posts:

jarhead123 · 28/03/2018 07:01

Person A. The tree was person B's idea, they can pay!

flumpybear · 28/03/2018 07:05

Get on the internet and find out the root system of the tree then email admin for the fine to be lifted if the root system wouldn't affect the foundations but still agree to move it

250 quid is insane! Fight it if you can

buckeejit · 28/03/2018 07:46

Agree to dig it up put in a pot & sink & then say you didn't know this is what ndn has done all along, therefore within rules. Obv if they come back to you & are reasonable then don't do this!

TERFragetteCity · 28/03/2018 07:48

I've read the rules now to avoid future mishaps

what is the actual wording?

givemesteel · 28/03/2018 08:10

If I had been person B I wouldn't have asked for the money as it was my idea.

But if I was person A and been asked for half I would pay it for the sake of neighbourly relations. But I would expect them to remove the tree though and I would be a bit miffed about it.

I guess £250 is a pretty big hit where as both sharing the cost makes it bearable. So it's the right thing to do. Don't pay a propertion of it, you are jointly liable for it and for the sake of saving yourself £30 or 40 you'll piss your neighbour off.

ilikebread · 28/03/2018 08:17

It’s both, they have shared ownership regardless of who’s idea it was. They should share the cost of the fine.

Sparkletastic · 28/03/2018 08:28

Why the hell would A or B agree to such a disproportionate fine? Remove tree. Ignore fine or send reasonable amount in full and final settlement if factor can demonstrate that any costs were incurred.

Icanttakemuchmore · 28/03/2018 11:33

If the houses are privately owned and not rented I can't see what their issue is. Its your house so why would anyone else be bothered about the tree roots?

JoySaidThat · 28/03/2018 13:11

I don’t get why one of you doesn’t just go out & dig the tree up & put it into a pot. If it’s small enough to have been planted then surely it’s not too hard to just dig it out & then forget about the fine. Then you could respond to the enforcers & say “what tree?” once it’s been taken out.

JoySaidThat · 28/03/2018 13:16

Also - people saying “just pay up” - £125 is a lot of money to just dish out. I wouldn’t pay but I’d also tell the neighbour not to pay & we both just dig that tree out & laugh about it together

ConfessionsOfTeenageDramaQueen · 28/03/2018 13:32

I would go online and find a telephone number for the (alleged) department who sent you the fine rather than an email on the letter. Agree this sounds dodge.

Clairaloulou · 28/03/2018 15:32

I don’t think you should be disagreeing between yourselves, I think you should be disagreeing with the factor! Challenge it completely!

ThePants999 · 29/03/2018 08:07

FGS don't just "query" the fine, and certainly don't just pay it. The factor has no authority to levy fines on you!

DontOpenDeadInside · 29/03/2018 09:15

You could have said it is in a pot, under the ground, so roots will not go further than the pot?

user1483875094 · 29/03/2018 15:45

More importantly, what kind of a housing association REFUSES to allow an area to become more "beautiful" and pleasant, and WHY?

I would be far more interested in challenging that horribly cynical approach, and the punishment of a fine, than getting into a neighbourhood dispute. I would go over the fine print more carefully first, and challenge such a Draconion and basically pointless situation/fine. Am really not sure they can dictate what you plant in your OWN garden, unless of course it is cannabis bushes!

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