Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder which ‘history facts’ aren’t true.

600 replies

LeslieKnopefan · 25/03/2018 05:19

I understand that history isn’t always true and the further we go back in time the harder it is know what the truth is and what is simply made up.

However I recently posted that I thought it was true that Marie Antoinette hair turned white overnight after her best friends head was paraded in front of her and that I only realised it wasn’t when I told a mate who pointed out it couldn’t be true.

So which history facts that people think are true are known to be lies?

OP posts:
kimanda · 25/03/2018 13:12

PMSL at @Camilla the all knowing oracle Grin

SimonBridges · 25/03/2018 13:15

Surely hair that is already grown can’t change colour overnight. How could it?
I always assumed it to be a figure of speech and over night to mean over the course of a few weeks.

One theory I read though was that all your dark hair falls out and your grey hair remains. But you would have to have a decent amount of grey for that to happen.

I do know someone who’s hair grew a grey streak after her father died suddenly.

QueenOfTheAndals · 25/03/2018 13:15

But I do agree that Richard has been demonised to a ridiculous degree.

In recent years it seems to have gone the other way, with many novelists and "historians" depicting him as St Dickon of Middleham and Margaret Beaufort as the evil mother-in-law from hell scheming from day 1 to put her son on the throne!

We know by some of Richards other actions (executing Hastings without a trial) that he was as capable of being as ruthless as any other medieval king.

Elendon · 25/03/2018 13:18

The Titanic was due to cutbacks and an engineering failure.

Elendon · 25/03/2018 13:20

Why are people so engaged regarding the death of the princes?

I simply don't understand it.

Camiila · 25/03/2018 13:21

PMSL at @Camilla the all knowing oracle

well done, thats the way to develop understanding and depth of knowledge, pyl at someone who knows more than you. You'll go to bed tonight as ignorant as you woke up, I suspect that's normal for you

Elendon · 25/03/2018 13:24

Regarding grey hair.

This is a throwback to suspicions regarding Catholicism and getting rid of bad spirits as in Exorcism.

Iwasjustabouttosaythat · 25/03/2018 13:25

Little, it’s all in the spirit of fun/curiosity for me. You’re not the kind of TeamRichard I’m thinking of if you can even consider the possibility that he killed those boys.

Of course there are los of lies about him and many other monarchs were far worse. I think it’s just the idea of killing two children in cold blood that gets to people. They were his own family and (maybe) they trusted him. The art works that are always displayed with any article have an impact too - the two boys clinging to each other and looking around, as though they can hear their killer coming up the stairs and they know what he plans to do...

No modern court could convict Richard of course, there’s no real evidence and there never will be. If they ever do prove that the bones are the princes’ bones it would sway a few opinions at least (I hope).

TabbyMack · 25/03/2018 13:30

You don’t understand why people might be interested in a subject that you’re not, Elendon? Really?

Elendon · 25/03/2018 13:32

Well I don't because it always comes up on these discussion boards and no one EVER gets a satisfactory answer.

The truth will never be known TabbyMack

So why the endless discussions on it?

QueenOfTheAndals · 25/03/2018 13:34

I've thought of another fact - that Eleanor of Aquitaine was some sort of powerful proto-feminist who was years ahead of her time when she wasn't. She was very much of her time and her husbands did all they could to limit her power. She actually had quite a sad life if you think about it.

Elendon · 25/03/2018 13:37

And sorry, but in the scheme of things i.e. the discussion of the history facts that are not true regarding war, pestilence, famine, slavery, annihilation then why would the death of two children, who most probably died of a disease anyway, be of importance?

TabbyMack · 25/03/2018 13:38

Camilla Do you have a source for the information you’re presenting as “facts” please...I would like to read it.

Elendon · 25/03/2018 13:41

So who would be the powerful proto feminist in the 21st century then Queen?

QueenOfTheAndals · 25/03/2018 13:44

??

All I'm saying is that a lot of what we think we know about Eleanor are myths that have grown over centuries and been embellished by biographers and novelists. The Courts of Love apparently didn't even exist!

Inventing Eleanor by Michael Evans examines her reputation over the years and is well worth a read.

TabbyMack · 25/03/2018 13:45

It’s just a discussion, Elendon not a research paper. This is a discussion forum, in case you hadn’t noticed. Rather narcissistic and arrogant to try and tell people what they should be discussing, you know.

Iwasjustabouttosaythat · 25/03/2018 13:51

And sorry, but in the scheme of things i.e. the discussion of the history facts that are not true regarding war, pestilence, famine, slavery, annihilation then why would the death of two children, who most probably died of a disease anyway, be of importance?

Who’s discussing “history facts that are not true regarding war, pestilence, famine, slavery, annihilation” on this thread? It’s all Richard, Titanic and Marie Antoinette as far as I can see. Wink

One actual fact is that people like mysteries. Another fact is that people don’t like the idea of kids being murdered. Put the two together and voila! You have interest.

It’s really ok for people to be interested in this and yet still care about war, pestilence, famine, slavery, annihilation. It’s not an either/or thing.

bigKiteFlying · 25/03/2018 13:56

I assume d the white overnight thing was enough of the coloured hair falling out suddenly that the hair left shows the grey/white hair more.

Titanic - I saw a documentary about the recently.

Apparently it was a myth they were racing to beat the transatlantic crossing record - they stood no chance. They kept their speed up because they had no choice.

The shipping line were in trouble – so they were cost cutting cheaper steal and few lifeboats and another ship had been hit but a boat and the poor steal meant is was very damaged repairing put the Titanic behind production. There was a mining strike and coal was at a premium so they took on no extra.

They had set sail with a coal fire – they had two huge bunkers and coal is prone to self-ignition. They couldn’t afford another delay so sailed with it and at first stop all the firemen bar one got off which was extremely unusual and entire fire crew changed.

Took days to deal with the fire only way was to shovel it into the furnaces and unfortunately design flaw had stacked coal directly next to hull and patriating steel - it got very hot and another fire started in second bunker – so they had to shovel coal out of that as well.

The firemen and stokers reported steel buckling and there are photos showing bulge next to first coal bunker when it set off.

They were literally running out of coal – if they had slowed down they didn’t have the coal to get up speed again and had very real problem that they might run out of fuel mid-Atlantic. Any other year icebergs wouldn’t have been so far south so it was considered lower risk option.

The hull and partion most affected bits heated up where steel had lost strength.

The shipping lien lied to American enquiry – said no firemen had survived – they shipped them out straight away. In British Firemen they had to campaign to be allowed to speak then chairmen dismissed everything they said.

QueenOfTheAndals · 25/03/2018 14:00

There's also a conspiracy theory that the Titanic was really the Olympic, but I doubt that's true.

PearsandCustard · 25/03/2018 14:03

There's obviously no point asking Camiila for credentials or sources. She's ignored every such request so far and even if she were to provide some, they'd likely only be pulled out of her arse like everything else she's spouting.

Hypermice · 25/03/2018 14:06

no I don't, I said that everyone on the planet has viking ancestory, not that everyone on the planet originated from the vikings.

Can you explain this? I’m a geneticist.

A LOT of people will have Viking acestry - rather a lot of Russia was populated by the Kievan Rus for example, the normans had Viking input, lots of the UK does and they certainly raided n’ traded all the way to at least Constantinople.
However, EVERYONE on the planet? No. The Wallace line if nothing else remains a formidable barrier. I dont think one could even begin to make a case for Anadaman Islanders, Papuans, Australian aboriginals, anywhere south of about Mexico, polynesians etc etc. Never mind most of Africa.

I’ve never heard this theory before - I’m intrigued as to where and what it is.

sashh · 25/03/2018 14:07

Conversely, it is also a period of stability and peace.

WW I and II, Balkans, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, apartheid, Vietnam war, Korean War, NI, Juntas in South America, civil wars in various African countries, fall of the iron curtain...

Birdsgottafly · 25/03/2018 14:16

Bigkiteflying i watched that. Lord Mersey was well rewarded for his part in the cover up.

All of the history around important Women, starting with Mary Magdalene being a prostitute. Women are continually discredited throughout history.

The Nazi's going as far as they did, certainly did cover up the other Holocausts being inflicted across Europe and how enthusiastic every nation was to kill their Jewish residents. There are still campaigns raging to get acts of Genocide recognised.

That Henry viii had Syphilis and that's why he couldn't have a Son. That was still being said when I was at school in the 70's.

Rosa Parks being the first Black Woman to do what she did and it being off her own back and not staged.

Elendon · 25/03/2018 14:18

Ah so myths in history equals conspiracy?

You couldn't make it up, or could you?

sashh It was a period of stability and peace after WW2, especially in Europe.

You forgot to mention fall of the Berlin Wall. Irish independence and the civil war that followed. Catalonia. The Balkans.

Hypermice · 25/03/2018 14:20

That Henry viii had Syphilis and that's why he couldn't have a Son.

He had at least one legitimate and one illegitimate (Henry Fitzroy - whom he recognised and made a duke.) possibly others too - there are four who are maybe his.