To wonder which ‘history facts’ aren’t true.

[LeslieKnopefan]

I understand that history isn’t always true and the further we go back in time the harder it is know what the truth is and what is simply made up.

However I recently posted that I thought it was true that Marie Antoinette hair turned white overnight after her best friends head was paraded in front of her and that I only realised it wasn’t when I told a mate who pointed out it couldn’t be true.

So which history facts that people think are true are known to be lies?

I've had one of those Ancestry dna tests. I don't know how accurate they are but it shows no Scandinavian heritage at all.

They're not accurate at all, unfortunately.

With all the chat about Henry VIII armour, I keep thinking about Lord Farquaad in Shrek!

Doing history a level where half of it was pure methodology taught me just how much of 'history' is pure bumpkin.

It's such a complex game of Chinese whispers, propaganda, and interpretation depending on the political leanings of the witnesses that it's difficult to find many actual 'true facts' beyond the 20th century.

Archaeology tends to be a bit 'truer' these days to be honest.

Learning all this did help me refine my critical thinking and gullibility skills though

"belgian" genes? Belgium only came into existence in 1830, it doesn't have its own genes.

Yes, that's why the test doesn't distinguish because it's a false distinction...

namechange, that’s half the point though isn’t it? Being able to find evidence and present a reasoned argument.

There isn't a French gene either though. Nations are political constructs, and conflating nationhood with biology is a very slippery slope indeed.

You are misunderstanding what I'm saying. Results show dna from an area of Western Europe currently encompassed by (northern) France and Belgium. Knowledge of family history means I knew this to be correct.

No matter. My point was my results showed 0 Scandinavian when I expected a fair proportion and there should have been a small amount if everyone descends from Vikings.

Vomit rooms for Romans

Re authors of the historical genre - I 'm quite partial to CJ Sansom. The details seem considered and well drawn . Is anyone going to shatter my illusion and tell me I should know better ?

Has Philippa Gregory ever claimed to be a historian? I thought she was very open about the fact that she writes fiction, most definitely tailored for a modern audience?

It's very enjoyable fiction but I don't know anyone who would take it as an actual history lesson. She takes a few basic facts, such as who marries whom and who dies when, and openly makes up stories about what happened in between. Has she ever claimed otherwise?

I still like Antonia Fraser for the Tudors - I like her writing

Yes, in recent years Philippa G has claimed to be a historian and gone as Dr Philippa Gregory when she had a non-fiction history book about the wars of the roses published.

She does have a PhD, but in English not history!

Phillippa Gregory may not claim to be an historian, but she certainly doesn't say she isn't when introduced as such. She says that she takes basic facts, but they are frequently incorrect. Now, she's all about making as much money as she can with as many books as she can on the back of being part of the channel 4 Richard III burial team - along with sneery David Starkey who hates all Plantagenets. Yeah, well done there, Channel 4. Nothing like a bit of balance and that was nothing like it.

Oh dear.

I really thought it was obvious just from reading her books that they're 99% made up, for the simple reason that there cannot be any records of most of what happens. And also because the characters are so plainly written as constructs for modern sensibilities.

To be entirely fair to Philippa Gregory - which doesn't sit well with me - she mostly writes about medieval history. There are a lot of medieval historians who have history degrees and PhDs, but there are also quite a few who have degrees in other things, and I know at least one person who's an Oxford academic in History but did her PhD in Literature.

The biggest myth in history is that perpetrated in school history departments that the only bit of history school children want to study is the second world war and England in the first half of the C20th. I had to do it for both O and A level. Frankly I'd rather have had my finger nails pulled one by one.... It is clear from the rating for history programmes on TV that most people want the salacious bits with some gore chucked in as well - for my money that means the Romans, the Tudors, the Plantagenets and Normans and then the Georgians. Far more interesting than the economy of the 1930s or the Weimar Republic. My daughter loves history and watches RIchard III and Tudor documentaries as if they were boxed sets but refuses to do it at GCSE as the subject matter is so turgid.

I studied Russian and Italian history at GCSE and A level, as well as the World Wars.

Really interesting points here ! Good reading!

So who wrote Greensleeves then?

Oh I am pretty sure it was Trad. His partner Anon probably did the lyrics.

Yorrick I also studied Russian and Italian history at A level - part of a topic on Europe of the dictators - ie add Mussolini and Stalin to Hitler and watch them slug it out in the Second World War. Renaissance Italy or the Decembrists would have been much more interesting.

This is sort of history, we evolved from apes. We are apes and we shared a common ancestor .

My aunt went through a horrific time in the war and went white "overnight" at the age of 25.

Florence Nightingale was not called Lady with the Lamp, but Lady with the Axe. When she arrived in the Crimea she found medical supplies padlocked in a cupboard, as they were only used on officers. She thought this was very wrong, so took an axe, burst the padlock, and used the supplies on all soldiers. The soldiers after that called her Lady with the Axe.
A journalist covering the crimea wanted to do a story about nurses there and decided to cover Florence, but thought Lady with the Axe did not sound lady like enough, so changed it to Lady with the Lamp. So it was an invention of a journalist.

Coming back after a gap of several hours, it's a shame that Elendon still hasn't produced a source for her claim that Henry VIII was short.