To ask where you would move to?

[RedPandaMama]

I've asked similar questions before but we still can't decide!

We have a 7mo DD. DP has a career in Manchester, which is transferable to many cities around the UK with possibility for overseas movement in 2 years time. I'm currently a SAHM about to start my master's degree. We are in our 20s. My family are in Lancashire, his 30 mins outside London.

Current options:

A) continue renting in reasonably nice suburban town 30 mins from Manchester for 18 months, then buy a house closer to the city. DD go to nursery and school there.
Pros - only 30 mins from my family, cheap, know the area, would be homeowners soon, decent schools. Cons - have lived here my whole life, bit bored of the area.

B) finish up our rent contract (Winter 2018) then DP transfers to London position and we move to South London.
Pros - near his family, more interesting and cultural lifestyle, great public transport, more job prospects for me once finished masters, DP would get London waiting salary. Cons - expensive, busy etc. as associated with London living. Probably would be stuck renting forever.

C) move to another UK city. Positions available in Newcastle, Glasgow, Nottingham and more.
Pros - move somewhere new, exciting, experience another lovely city. Cons - no family for either of us nearby, potentially expensive, could be stuck in rent trap, isolating not knowing anybody?

D) take an amazing opportunity for DP's career and move to a European city. Can't go into details but would be a 2 year contract starting in 2.5 years time. Move to unknown European capital city, everything provided for - flights, house, car, private schooling for DD - plus amazing step up career ladder for DP and double his current salary.
Pros - opportunity to live in another country, loads of extra money, I could be a SAHM if I wanted to, learn new language for DD and amazing education, DP's career pretty much sorted for life. Cons - potentially dangerous position (can't elaborate more), DP would have to be on call unless he was on holiday, could be very isolating, far from family (although flights provided for family to visit, DPs mum can't fly), could be a difficult transition, may never own a house, I may not be able to find a job (if I wanted one) as I don't speak another language.

Help. We need to start making decisions pretty soonish but just don't know. Part of me wants all of them and part of me wants to curl under a rock and hide from life changes.

@myidentitymycrisis we can't buy now as stuck in a renting contract until December and I'm not working so no one would offer us a decent mortgage. Probably 18 months time we could be in a position to buy, then would have to wait another 2 years to move abroad and work out converting our mortgage to a buy-to-let. Seems like the most sensible option so far, I think. I do just worry about buying and then feeling too comfortable and not wanting to leave though... then in 5 years time regretting not taking that leap, but having kids settled in schools and a job and not being able to go at that point.

I love Manchester and I would definitely say D!! I would jump at that chance if I had it.

The abroad option may be, depending on your circumstances, a once in a lifetime thing, the others aren't, and it does sound as though you are attracted to the moving abroad. Buying a house and renting it out is a good way, we did that initially when we moved abroad. For your cons of moving abroad, the dangerous position is a big question, but only you can answer that. Your DH being on call, well, sometimes for double the salary the workload increases, it depends if he can gauge how much he would be called in and whether that is worth it. It can be isolating, you have to be happy in your own company for a while sometimes, but if you have a child of school age you will usually make friends that way. Flights for family to visit is unusual, and if DPs Mum can't fly if you are accessible by rail they may pay for that, often employers are flexible about such things. It sounds like you have a very good package on offer for moving. Not being able to work is something you may not even have a choice about. If your DP is on call, working long hours, you have no other support in the country it is sometimes very difficult for a spouse to work when you have young children. You won't be on your own in that though. It is not a con really I have found.

We have lived abroad for 15 years, in two European countries (first France, then Italy, now back in France), our DS was born here 18 months after we arrived.

It is a big step, but if you are even now thinking you would regret not doing it then you may well regret it later. PM me if you want to talk a bit more about it.

I live in London, I think it depends on the area you'd move too and the amount of money you'll be earning. London living wage sounds like a decent amount but in reality my DP and I are struggling and we don't have a child..

D

At your age, and in your position I would go 'D'.

It sounds like a great opportunity if you go with an open mind. I'm not sure I understand the 'dangerous' reference but why not give it a go?

more interesting and cultural lifestyle,

Dont buy that, you live near Manchester thers culture There!

I think D here's why

1. you clearly don't fancy A
2. B involves living in and bringing up a child in London. Unless you are millionaires I wouldn't do it.
3. of you choose C why live so far from both sets of parents for no apparent reason. Travelling abroad is good reason but otherwise imagine the number of weekends you will spend visiting or receiving visitors.

D) You have a baby. If you stay here your baby will grow and travelling will become less and less of an option. This is probably the only time you will be able to do this without huge guilt for your child.

Although A then D also works as long as it all happens before your LO is at school

It’s pretty difficult to change your mortgage from a residential to buy-to-let. Buy-to-let mortgages usually require a deposit of 25% so mortgage lenders are wary if you have put less than this as a deposit if you want to convert.

I’d go with A or else London (pretty much the best place to raise kids). Don’t underestimate the value of being near family. Moving abroad sounds lonely and isolating.

I’m a born and bred Londoner, who loves being close to my family, so all your options seem potentially great to me for different reasons. But the one thing that jumped out was - please get married. You’re basing your whole life around following your DP but if things unfortunately went south you have no protection at all. If things stay graat but one of you were to get ill, you have no protection. Before you move your life, least of all move countries, get yourself, your relationship and your daughter some legal protection.

If you're only planning on being abroad for a couple of years, consent to let, rather than buy to let, might be a better option. Otherwise, when you come back, you'll have to change the mortgage back to a residential one, as you can't live in your house on a BTL.

I also agree about getting married. You need to protect yourself. You don't have to have a big expensive wedding, you could just invite parents/siblings and a couple of close friends, and marry in a registry office.

I'm a born and bred Londoner, but moved out nearly 20 years ago. The cost, and the pollution, are two of the things that would put me off living there now, especially with children.

A or D. Definitely not London. I’ve lived near there all my life. So expensive. Schools are a massive issue. It’s not a simple case of live in London. You need to pay loads to live in good school catchment. You are best to work out which primary schools you want in each area. Then look at catchment area. For example, in some areas in the south you need to be 0.4 km from school gates to get a place. Really can’t stress how important this is or you’ll be moving again the year before she starts school when you realise all of this. Best to do it now. I’d also live near Manchester in a heartbeat. Love it. Trafford centre, legoland discovery, chill factore...so much to do which is great when kids are a bit older.

The way you phrased your OP makes option D the absolute best for you. You talked about that far more - it's what you want to do. Doing something you want to do is on the pro side.

It will be more difficult, and perhaps you should budget for paying for relatives to come and visit. I mean it's lovely for the kids to see their grandparents and aunties and uncles but, unless your family is wealthy, if you want them to be in touch and it's you who chose to move country then you should pay for them to visit. And you will need a spare bedroom for them. But it sounds like that would be doable.

It's a bit awkward to give an opinion on D... are we talking Kyiv or Paris?
I would consider Cardiff as a city with good opportunities, low ish cost housing and good amenities.

Totally D - that’s what we did and have never looked back.

Emigrated to the Middle East when my eldest was 6 months old, my second was born there, and 18 months ago we moved countries again (still within the Middle East though)

Not London. It's very expensive.

I would stick where you are - near family, Lancashire has some lovely towns and countryside. You would be well placed for nice holidays and weekends away in the UK (Lakes, Yorkshire, Northumberland etc), near an airport for international travel.

D - Scary but massive potential to change your future life.

D D D D D

Definitely not D.

Don’t underestimate the isolation thing

I’d go option E and find a better funkier part of Manchester. In your position my priorities would be:

Job opportunities (decent broadband means lots of jobs can be done from home so exact location less of an issue, and WFH great if you have children)

Opportunities for childcare from rellies

Friends locally, aware of baby groups, schools, know the “good and bad” areas to live - don’t underestimate this local knowledge - can make a big difference

FWIW I grew up as a D, and have friends that have done it recently. You need to factor in if you’d be happy not working, being culturally adrift/living in an expat bubble, feeling isolated etc. Don’t just be lured by the seeming status and money. IMO it’s not worth it.

I was in a similar position to you, albeit over 20.years ago. We went for the European city and it was great. All expenses paid, full on at work for DP but everyone else was in the same boat so there were lots of socialising events planned too. Managed to save money too which opened up more possibilities for our return. I managed to get a temp job which help me feel less ex-pat and I made friends that I am still in contact with. The two years flew by and we had a much better idea of how and where we wanted to live on our return to the UK. We had our second child whilst there too.

Had the opportunity to do it again when the kids were 11 and 13 but turned it down as it would have screwed their secondary education.

Go for it!

D while kids are young then back to A. After your adventure you will know if you want to be back to familiarity or carry on adventuring.
As someone who has settled in a place without family, I can see the benefits of belonging to a place and envy people who are local. Its nice having family and long term friends around you.

Thank you again for all your opinions, very helpful to hear different perspectives and experiences.

@MerryShitmas that's the thing, we wouldn't know. DP would go through the interview process etc but as he already works in that department it's pretty certain he would be offered a position. We'd be given a choice of three out of pretty much every European capital city, plus New York, a few Asian countries Japan, Hong Kong, Malaysia etc, and a few African countries. For family reasons we would only take a European city. It could be out of Paris, Prague and Berlin. Or it could be Abuja, Bucharest or Kyiv. In which case we wouldn't go.

I would go for C or D.

I would do A or C now and buy a property. Then you can do D when ready and rent out the house in this country.
Nottingham is lovely!