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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not pursue this as constructive dismissal?

18 replies

CurlyRover · 23/03/2018 12:53

I've recently left a job as my manager was bullying me over my mental health and just generally making awful remarks about my abilities. I know (from comments from senior management etc) that I'm damn good at what I do but he always put me down, told me conflicting things so I'd inevitably get it wrong.

The problem is via email he came across all nicey nicey "oh I would never get in the way of your treatment", "my door is always open and if you need anything let me know" etc. Yet in person he was completely different. I don't want to go into details in case it's outing but he made my position completely untenable and it was more than my health was worth to stay.

My counsellor thinks I should go for constructive dismissal as do a few friends. I just don't think I've got the energy to fight it. I absolutely hate that my ex boss can go and say and do the things he did with no consequences but I've got nothing on paper to prove it. AIBU to just draw a line under the sand, move on and try not to think about the next poor git who'll be under him?

OP posts:
Hefzi · 23/03/2018 13:12

I think you're totally right. Apart from the fact constructive dismissal isn't the cut and dried situation lay people tend to think, you'd have the stress of the ACAS mediation and then the tribunal hanging over you for months. People tend to think you get massive payouts from winning a tribunal, but in reality, that's very rarely the case.

I'm in your precise position atm - I've just said that for my own health, I'm walking away: when people have pushed, I've been very blunt and simply said that my "psychiatric team" have said it would be too damaging for my MH to have the stress of all that going on for months. (They haven't. And I don't have a team either - more a psychiatrist on his own, poor bugger Grin)

If you are comfortable with the decision you've taken, that's what's important. Flowers

Awwlookatmybabyspider · 23/03/2018 13:14

OMG. İ know it's the last thing you feel like doing, but. You have have to fight this. What he has done is illegal and disablist.
You cant let him get away with it. How dare he treat you like that and mock your distability and wOrse still not face any consequences.

Hefzi · 23/03/2018 13:14

Oh - and without dates and times and proof : which people normally don't keep records of, as most people are reasonable and want to get along - there's no guarantee you'd win at all. Honestly - save yourself any more stress over that shit.

Vangoghsear · 23/03/2018 13:19

If you have union backing it might be worth pursuing constructive dismissal up to a point to see if the company offer you a settlement. It would be stressful to do it alone so unless you are in a union or have insurance that would pay for a solicitor (often employment disputes are included in household insurance). If you have good records of incidents this would help your case.

OllyBJolly · 23/03/2018 13:23

from what you've said, it will be very difficult to prove constructive dismissal. The manager has a paper trail of supportive words and you only have hearsay.

As Hefzi said, not worth the stress. You don't generally get massive payouts (notice period plus something in respect of time to find another job) If you had an existing mental health condition it would be difficult to claim psychological distress (no matter how justified it is).

Constructive dismissal is when the employer breaches the employment contract and makes it impossible for you to work there. Notoriously difficult to win.

SporadicSpartacus · 23/03/2018 13:30

I had a similar situation a while back. I didn’t pursue it in the end - as while I had a pretty decent paper trail and timeline, I couldn’t actually prove what was said in a lot of the meetings, just that they happened - and the charismatic person involved had form for lying and getting believed.

Before this experience I’d have been all ‘omg, you must fight it!’ - but just going through the work grievance process wrecked my mental health for a good while. I don’t think I would have coped with a tribunal. My advice would be walk away - unless you have solid documentary evidence of wrongdoing and enough support that you’re not fighting it by yourself.

Isn’t it shit, though?

Original poster
CurlyRover · 23/03/2018 14:12

It is really shit Sporadic

Sorry you're going through it too Hefzi

I don't have a union - private sector industry where there isn't a union really and nobody in the company is part of one. I have the support of DP but sometimes that's not enough is it.

I do have dates of when he's said certain things but it would be a case of he said she said - he would say he didn't say that as can be seen via email he said the contrary.

Ugh. It's just a shit situation all round. I don't even care about payouts tbh i just think it's grossly unfair I had to leave a job I was good at and that he can say this stuff with no repercussions.

OP posts:
blueyacht · 23/03/2018 14:14

It might be worth submitting a data protection request. There is more information here ico.org.uk

I did this a few years ago and emails sent about me (not to me) were very helpful in proving things in writing rather than just hearsay. Based on the written evidence I started a tribunal process, though in truth I was never going to go through with it. What I was hoping for was an out of court settlement with ACAS mediation, which is exactly what I got. The feeling of relief and triumph was almost worth more than the money.

You're right, you need a tremendous amount of energy to pursue something like this. It ground me down when I was at my lowest. Only you can decide if you have the stomach for it.

UtterlyDesperate · 23/03/2018 14:20

It's monumentally shit, isn't it? In my case, my workplace is full of mental health posters and senior management are full of themselves about how supportive they are of people with mental health issues - my arse!

I am in a union - unfortunately, they've been worse than useless. It sticks in my craw that my employer has got away with disability discrimination, but I'm trying to console myself with the thought that their birds will come home to roost in the end.

Take care of yourself, CurlyFlowersBrew

Original poster
CurlyRover · 23/03/2018 17:12

blueyacht I did request info related to my sickness absences and health conditions but unfortunately that was more of the same "oh we can help" and my favourite "Curly was dismissive of the support we offered" - which was counselling for 6 sessions when I already see a long term private counsellor and know from past experience 6 sessions doesn't give me enough time which I tried explaining but conveniently that wasn't on the record Hmm

UtterlyDesperate - gosh that's awful! You'd think with all the posters they would be more supportive. Sorry to hear your union have been rubbish. Thank you and take care of yourself too Flowers

OP posts:
Original poster
CurlyRover · 23/03/2018 17:16

blueyacht how did you know / request emails sent about you but not to you? Though tbh I suspect in my case any negativity was done verbally rather than in writing.

OP posts:
5plusMeAndHim · 23/03/2018 17:16

Have you exhausted the internal grievance procedure? If not constructive dismissal is pretty much a non-starter

blueyacht · 23/03/2018 19:19

@curlyrover I just requested any mention of me, whether it was in hard copy or email. So while it's hard to prove that, say, you've been sent to Coventry, when one colleague emails another saying "I'd ask blueyacht but I am not speaking to her" it was a godsend. It is amazing what people will put in writing.

BeverlyGoldberg · 23/03/2018 21:51

Curly, how long were you in your job?

My advice would be fight if it you feel you may regret not doing so. This shitty time will pass and in the future you may regret not fighting for what you deserved.

ErniesGhostlyGoldtops · 23/03/2018 21:54

Even with a union rep like a pitbull it is almost impossible to prove CD. Walk away and get well and give him the finger if you ever see him out and about!

GoldenHefalump · 23/03/2018 21:58

you'd have the stress of the ACAS mediation and then the tribunal hanging over you for months

That's not necessarily the case at all.

Dh sued for CD through ACAS. He spoke to ACAS a fair few times and they put him in touch with a solicitor who wrote a scary letter to the employer asking for a fair settlement out of court or he would sue.

The employer shit his pants basically and offered half what DH had requested. ACAS haggled with the employer on dh's behalf and they settled in the middle. The mediation process wasn't particularly stressful at all.

He came away with £5k and the whole process took less than a month.

Huntinginthedark · 23/03/2018 22:45

I think it’s worth a lawyers letter threatening it, or at least talk to a lawyer and get their professional opinion, a good one will tell you when to go for it or when to let it go.

If it actually comes down to court, then I would say for your own health, it’s a tough road and I wouldn’t suggest going through it.
My friend did and it nearly broke them, if the employer wants a fight it’s going to be a long hard road.
Literally look at it financially, and work out it’s worth. Think about your future and your job situation.
Sometimes people are arseholes, but you don’t need to break yourself because it’s the right thing to do.

Mumao · 23/03/2018 22:48

I was in the exact same position a few months ago... I didn’t persue it and I don’t regret it. In my case it was a matter of moving in and being happy.

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