Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is this situation just an 'unhappy childhood' or should authorities be notified?

25 replies

MrsIT · 23/03/2018 10:49

Myself and my partner keep going backwards and forwards on this situation so hoping you can give some advice. Please read everything before giving the kneejerk 'call social services obviously' reaction.

We moved into our new house (terrace) early December and it became evident very quickly that the walls are very thin. Next door to us is a family with two boys aged 4 and 18 months. Both parents live at home. The grandparents regularly help in the daytime with childcare, the mum appears to work part-time. The dad leaves the house at 5am and returns about 3pm, the mum seems to work a few days a week in the afternoon only.

We don’t have children and I’ve done a lot of reading on this website of similar situations and have read very detailed posts from people working for social services saying that what I am about to describe is not cause to call social services and that doing so would make the children’s life worse.

The older child has a habit of screaming: constantly. And this isn’t using the word screaming to mean crying, I mean screaming often in short repeated blasts, sometimes for a long time. It often sounds like excited screaming but most of the time it seems like it is just ‘to make a noise’. It is incredibly loud. This starts from 6am and continues until they go to bed. I can’t tell you how frustrating this is to live next to, it is horrible.

The reasoning for this may be because the parents regularly scream at each other. They swear in front of the children, call each other the C word and last night were having an argument about how much they hate each other. This isn’t just ‘stressed’ arguing; it’s vindictive and nasty and they clearly dislike each other. We hear a lot through the walls and we have never heard laughter or kind words between them. Often when they shout at each other the son’s screaming gets louder and more pronounced.

When the dad looks after the children in the afternoon is when it is most disturbing (I work at home three days a week). The children often seem to be left unattended (a regular cause for the parents shouting at the children is ‘oh look what you’ve done’ or ‘why have you got all these out’ or ‘why have you made a mess’). Often if the children make noise I hear the dad running downstairs from the attic room to shout at them. And he really shouts at them. He roars ‘shut up’ at the absolute top of his lungs as well as telling the 4-year-old to ‘fuck off’. One of the most disturbing cases the son was crying and really crying, that sort of choke crying that sounds desperate and sad. The son kept repeating something over and over (I couldn’t hear what he was saying) and the dad did not comfort him and continued shouting. Their constant threat to the children is ‘oh you’ll go to your bed then’, not sure how productive this would be at 4.30pm.

The mum to her credit does try with them and is much less aggressive than the dad. She does scream at them but it seems to be when she’s reached the end of her tether; although this is often. She is most disturbing when she is arguing with the dad.

The children rarely leave the house and we have never seen them in the garden playing (even in the snow?). I thought the 4-year-old would be in some sort of schooling by this age (perhaps I am wrong?) We’ve seen him in school uniform only once and he went for two days, we haven’t noticed him going since. This may be because he goes on the days when I am in the office I’m not sure (although my days in the office move around each week)?

The Gran is no better at taking care of them and clearly you can see where the parenting style comes from; there is regular screaming and shouting.

We can not go round and ask if there’s ‘anything we can do’. Neither of us have children or have any knowledge of looking after them and to be honest because of their temperaments we avoid them as much as possible. What is strange is they MUST know we can hear them. In the daytime I have radio on; hang the washing out etc, so they must know I am home. I.e. they must not care what we can hear? I’ve thought of maybe going round and complaining about the noise and being very clear that the noise is not the children (often their screaming arguments are 12.30 at night etc).

One cause for concern is that if we reported them there is no doubt that they would know it was us who reported them. Obviously, the safety and wellbeing of the children is number one priority but I have to take into consideration that they are not the nicest characters (as you can see above) and could potentially make our lives very difficult and miserable being neighbours and sharing access. I definitely fear confrontation from them and what they would do if they guessed it was us who reported them. Please don’t think badly on me for raising this as an issue, it could potentially make our lives very hard and very miserable in a house we bought less than 6 months ago. We thought of perhaps calling the boys school and reporting a concern confidentially? Would this work?

Another outcome of this is that we have not slept past 6am since moving in to the house. The mornings seem to be particularly fraught, the boy screams his head off for 2 hours as the mum screams at him. For those of you with children you must be used to the constant early mornings, but it is extremely frustrating for us.

Basically; are these children being abused or is this just a sad case of an unhappy home? I feel for the mother to be honest, I imagine financially she can’t get away from the husband who is just so awful. Realistically do I believe that social services would take these children away from the parents: no. so what would they do? I cannot imagine the father caring a jot for a ‘parenting course’ or similar things that have been suggested as the outcome of calling social services.

Any thoughts would be welcome.

OP posts:
Inseoir · 23/03/2018 10:53

If he is leaving the 18 month old unattended while going into the attic then that alone is neglect - toddlers that cannot be left unsupervised, they are far far too young. I would report.

Holycrapwhatnow · 23/03/2018 10:58

You can report anonymously via the NSPCC. Am no expert but agree it sounds like crappy parenting at minimum, and you don't necessarily know if there's more going on than the shouting. At least if you make a report you know you've done something, and then people with more experience might be able to see what is going on.

Trinity66 · 23/03/2018 10:58

oh god, those poor babies :( I really don't know if social services could/would do anything but it must be heartbreaking for you to have to listen to it all the time

endofthelinefinally · 23/03/2018 11:02

I think in your situation I would report to the school.
That way the parents are less likely to connect it to you.
But it sounds dreadful and the children are being neglected IMO.

SciFiFan2015 · 23/03/2018 11:02

You need to do something that much is clear. What you do is more difficult.
Inform someone anonymously. NSPCC or local services definitely

Do something and you will never wonder "what if?"

Good luck.

jaseyraex · 23/03/2018 11:08

Those poor kids. I think you should call the NSPCC for some advice. They can tell you the best course of action to take for this. Definitely try and report it to someone though, mainly on the chance that they have been reported before.

MrsIT · 23/03/2018 11:11

Hi everyone, thanks for the replies. I think NSPCC is a good shout, that way I can call and actually ask them advice as I just have here.
And you're right, at least if we report it we've done all we possibly can. It's up to council/social services what happens after.

It's just sad because the kids are going to have such a miserable childhood. Not necessarily 'abusive', but miserable.

OP posts:
RickOShay · 23/03/2018 11:16

Definitely call NSPCC. They will help you. Fwiw is sounds abusive to me.
You are doing the right thing Flowers

Asdwife · 23/03/2018 11:20

What you've described sounds abusive to me. It may not be physical but it is emotionally abusive to scream and shout fuck off to your children and have them witness huge long regular screaming matches.
Please do call NSPCC or report to school.

SleepySheepy · 23/03/2018 11:26

It breaks my heart to think of children in that situation. Why on earth did they have not one child, but two?
I feel for you OP as well, having to live next to it, I think I would be in tears regularly, feeling helpless about what was happening with those children, and struggling with sleep deprivation/noise issues.
I hope things improve once you've sought advice from the right people.

Fundays12 · 23/03/2018 11:31

My 6 year old screams and shouts a lot but he as autism and adhd so it’s not always about parenting styles. That being said me and dh try not to shout at him and rarely argue. It is difficult not to get frustrated at times with my 6 year old as he will literally do things like throw himself against patio doors to try show he can jump through glass safely or try to balance on the stair gate at the top of the stairs 🙈. If i have to shout at him or remove him to keep him safe I will do but normally I have told him countless times to stop by then.

I also have a 17 month old and leaving a child unattended at that age is a big no. They are far to young to be left to there own devices and shouting at a young child that age is something personally I don’t like. It does sound to me like the children’s home environment is not a particularly happy one and the parents could benefit from some support from outside services like social work.

If your in Scotland a child does not have to start school till they are 5 legally not to sure about England. Unless the child is home educated but they must be signed off and checks done. A child aged 3 to around 5 I would expect to be in pre school nursery but this is not a legal requirement just something the government encourage.

Kids do also need to be outside playing as in my own experience they actually behave much better when they get out to play.

MinisterforCheekyFuckery · 23/03/2018 11:40

I work in a school in a safeguarding role. What you are describing is abuse.

Child abuse is not necessarily physical- screaming "fuck off" at a four year old child and continuing to scream at them when they are clearly very distressed (the choking kind of crying you describe) is emotional abuse.

It also sounds as though these children are witnessing Domestic Abuse, which again doesn't have to be physical. Any child who witnesses Domestic Abuse (including verbal abuse, financial abuse or controlling behaviour) is classed as a victim of Emotional Abuse by children's services. The fact that Mum and Dad are having heated arguments, screaming at one another, insulting one another using derogatory and offensive language within earshot of the children will undoubtedly be frightening and distressing for them, hence the sons screaming escalating during these arguments.

Please report this, either to the NSPCC or to Children's Services directly. I work with vulnerable teenagers, many of whom have spent their early years in a home environment like this one, and I can tell you that the psychological damage that this kind of emotional abuse can do to a child can be every bit as serious and long lasting as if they were being beaten by their parents.

MrsIT · 23/03/2018 11:57

MinisterforCheekyFuckery Thanks for the advice.

I will talk to the NSPCC.

OP posts:
anothersuitcase · 23/03/2018 12:19

To echo a previous poster - this IS abuse. I have sat on child protection meetings with families with far lower level abuse than this awful situation you describe, this is very much within social services remit. Please do seek help for those children, and you have absolutely done the right thing by making it your business.

Minniemountain · 23/03/2018 12:31

Those poor boys.
The only thing I have to add is that the 4yo will be starting school in September. But as PP have said, he should be doing something like nursery school.

Spikeyball · 23/03/2018 12:53

I would report it on the basis of the adults behaviour. There can be good reasons why a child persistently screams or doesn't go out much but combined with the behaviour you describe from the adults it is concerning.

Sevendown · 23/03/2018 18:42

If you do really want to remain anon you can make a more vague report that there is domestic abuse rather than making it obvious that it’s the next door neighbour who’s hearing the noise.

Ime Anon reports carry more weight if you actually go into the social Work office to report the complaint. They will be better placed then to know you are not a malicious caller.

rocketgirl22 · 23/03/2018 18:49

No one is knee jerking, you really need to report this and SS will decide what action to take.

It could be that you are not even seeing/hearing the worst of what is happening. Please report now.

nightshade · 23/03/2018 18:49

In my region the nspcc do nothing other than report through to social services who have the duty to investigate..

Either way OP ...someone is going to have to call and visit...

I would suggest contacting the nearest health visitor who will still have responsibility for the 18 mth...they can make a point of calling for their routine development assessment..

Explain your concerns that they are obviously a family struggling and in need of support and that you do not wish the parents to know that a report has been made at this stage...

Thats about the best you can do...

rocketgirl22 · 23/03/2018 18:49

I am not sure there is such a word as knee jerking however

Katy75 · 23/03/2018 19:00

Please OP, you must report it. I suggest reporting to School (ask to speak to someone responsible for safeguarding). I have done it and headteacher was very nice. FWIW they said I was right to be concerned and they were v pleased I had reported as it helped them to help the children.

Also SS or NSPCC. I am not an expert but as far as I understand it they will try to help whole family, or at least mum and kids (depending on circumstances) to stay together and can help to get them the support they need.

I feel so strongly about this as I was from an abusive home. Please help them.

NameChange30 · 23/03/2018 19:06

This is so obviously abuse as PPs have said and I very much hope you get advice from NSPCC and then report to social services (which they can do for you I think?) and maybe the school as well.

It’s absolutely heartbreaking to read so I can only imagine what it must feel like to hear it every day Sad

purplelila2 · 23/03/2018 19:24

OP how can you know for certain they are unsupervised?

DrCoconut · 23/03/2018 19:25

My 6 year old shrieks. He's autistic. So a noisy child is not necessarily indicative of abuse. But the rest sounds horrible and a safeguarding issue.

User64zoolane · 23/03/2018 22:08

Well I had a miserable childhood. My neighbours must have heard a lot. I used to dream about social services turning up to take us away sometimes. But my neighbours never did anything. Nothing. They must must must have heard stuff, even seen stuff. I can't understand why they didn't help us.

You might make life hard for yourselves in terms of the parents - but the children might be really grateful for any intervention. Who will help them if you don't. Please give the school / nspcc or SS a call.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread