To think children mix much less in terms of social class now?

[Creambun2]

When I was at school in the 80s there was a broad social mix at the school, children of parents who worked in the local industry and children from more middle class families.

Friendship groups in and out of school seemed pretty mixed. From experience now schools (especially/mostly at secondary level) seem way more segregated in terms of social class, which I guess house prices and catchment areas play a large factor.

Last week I heard a group of boys on the bus from the "better school" in my area laughing about the "lazy shit heads" who go to the other school (both are comprehensives). Surely it is better for children to go to schools with a good mix of other young people? Meet others from different background to your own?

I think this issue is even worse in areas with the 11+

What are your thoughts on this?

Unless you can find someone who can remember pre-comprehensive education, I think was always like this. Anyone who did not go to my school was certainly lower down the food ladder than us - most were considered to be plankton!

It was like that in the 80’s. We certainly regarded the other comp children as lower down than us. Parents wanted their children in the school I went too and not the other one.

its still pretty much like this in scotland where most people will go to their local catchment school

This doesn't reflect my experience. My dd goes to the local comprehensive, which has a very broad social mix. There are relatively few private schools in my county, and none nearby. It's a non-grammar school county. So, inevitably, there is a broad mix. Where we lived before (other end of the country) also had a broad mix in the local comps.

Well I started school in the 1960s and although there was a broad mix at the school most kids only played with their own kind.

I can never understand this obsession with children mixing. I was a quiet shy child and horribly bullied by the loudmouth yobs at the comprehensive. Since I've been an adult I never ever have to mix with anyone like that; why should children?

This is why activities outside of school are key for children mixing . I try and make sure my kids go to clubs outside of the area so they mix with other kids from other schools/ areas/ classes etc

I think it depends on a child's and family's personal interests and activities as to how well they mix.

My children are at a private school but, because of how our family work, they spend time with children across the full spectrum of social class:

• I am a teacher at the private school so my children aren't actually from the same wealthy upper middle class demographic that many of their peers are from - so that's one type of social mixing.
• We go to a church that happens to be in a very socioeconomically deprived area of our nearest city. The congregation is very mixed and many travel from quite far away but a large number of the children in particular are from struggling families very different to my children's school friends.
• My children's hobbies are dance and performing arts related so they tend to make friends with children there who are generally fairly affluent but quite varied in terms of other social factors.
• My own friends children are spread all over the country but are quite homogenously middle class but not rich (friends from university)

So my children have 4 different groups of friends who are all pretty different from each other. I can imagine if your children go to school in catchment and do most of their activities through school that they would broadly stick with those who are similar to themselves, yes.

Hmm dd attended a london comp and it was like a system of apartheid existed. It was horrific. The independent we transferred her was far more inclusive.

Hello,

I can remember pre-comprehensive education and I sat (and failed) the 11 +. My father was very disappointed that I would not go to the grammar school where I would be set on an academic path. The 'secondary modern' school that I attended was 'rough' and I think all children who went there because they had 'failed' their 11 + somehow felt they were classed as 'failures'.

So, there may be prejudicial attitudes now, but in those days, there was a systematic 'grading' of children that could be escaped if your parents were wealthy enough to afford private education.

Unfortunately, nickedaname*, some areas of the country still use the divisive selective system. I live in Kent, and the children here are definitely aware of the grammar/high school divide. And yes, unpleasant comments are made.

Yes, I have a good friend who went to school in Kent and her experiences were not good.

My Daughter is at Private School
She has friends from 4 separate comprehensives and a Grammar as well as those from her own school

I started Grammar School in 1963. Once the eleven-plus results were known the previous spring friendships between those who had and those who had not passed began to fray and sever. They said we were going to the snob school and what we said about them I have managed to suppress from memory. By the end of term in July I had no friends who weren’t going Grammar. Not one.

chipsandpeas I thought in some parts of Scotland (Edinburgh) large numbers of children went to private schools?

There will be exceptions but I think this is broadly what I observe.

Comprehensive area here with no grammars. Some go out of town to private.
Within the school there is less mixing imo. My kids seem to be living in an American high school film at times. The school is much bigger than mine or my DH' s were. And the line some parents come out with is "they'll find their tribe!" I'm not a fan.

My Daughter is at Private School
She has friends from 4 separate comprehensives and a Grammar as well as those from her own school

That's great but pretty meaningless really - because all her friends will come from families with sufficient wealth to afford private school fees. Hardly the same as mixing with people from all swathes of life.

goldenhefalump exactly!

I remember circa early 90s singing a song to the school down the road which had thedelightful lyrics your daddy works for my daddy and its ok youll be pushing a pram one day.

Ahem ahem loveky children that we where.

This is nothing new.

If anything I think it has gotten better.

golden
No, I think you misunderstand
Her friends CURRENTLY attend 4 different Comprehensive schools and one Grammar AS WELL AS those at the same Private School as her and come from a variety of backgrounds. They are not all able to afford Private school fees, that’s my point.

This was always a major issue and it is an element of classism in the UK - at least in southern England. If anything there's more mixing nowadays thanks to the internet and the US modded forums.

This is an important thing to note about Muslim relations in the so-called and ill-defined "South Asian" community. If anything there's less mixing in the UK due base culture in the UK not being India.

Interesting comments.

There’s a lot more to Scotland than Edinburgh OP

I live in a small town. There are private schools in the area but the state schools are really excellent.

My kids go to school with kids whose parents are manual workers and those whose parents are millionaires.

There are kids who live in huge house and kids in council houses.

There are also a mix of Catholic and Protestant kids (not always the case in Scotland).

It’s one of the reasons we chose the area.

whynow1111 could you please clarify? I don't understand your last comment.

At my secondary there was no catchment area rule in those days and everyone mixed in together. There were some girls who were obviously well off but we never talked or made anyone feel like they had nothing. I never even knew there was a social class thing in the UK until my brother married his wife and she’s a stuck up snob. Their kids are all privately educated and aren’t allowed to mix with our “yobs” 🙄. I don’t really care about strangers being like this as I know from experience, my kids will meet and mix with all sorts in university, but being made out to be poor losers within your own family is very hurtful.

Totally agree OP.

In the 1990s I went to a primary school in the middle of a council estate. However, there was a great social mix as the people from the private 1930s semi-detached houses that neighbours our estate were in our catchment and went there too. There was one family on our estate where the kids went to a "nicer" school and that was seen as really odd back then.

Now, with "choice" you would find this wouldn't happen, alongside people being more pushy with their children. Our local school here is now very "rough" as all the naice people have either moved into a good catchment, or will drive their children to a nicer school. Think it does nobody any favours really, especially the children in the poorer areas where their schools almost become ghetto-ised.