AIBU to ask for some help/advice here

[IlikemyTeahot]

Hi all. First of all I apologise for posting here, its for traffic.
I need the mumsnet collective to help me figure something out please. I'll try to be as clear as possible.

I have a DD9 -early onset puberty (this is relevant)
My question is how can I make sure she is getting the correct intake of vitamins and minerals for her age and also taking puberty into consideration (we will be expecting periods to start soon.)

DD is Lactose Intolerant, we are mostly managing this- she does not like soya or nut milks so we use arla lacto free products-milk cheese butter etc on dieticians advice to make sure she is getting enough calcium.

DD is also a vegetarian (for 7-8 months now)
Being 9 she is also a fussy eater
She has never eaten eggs, not really a fan of cheese but will eat small amounts.
She will not eat nuts, beans-baked beans are an exception. She won't touch lentils (I sneak them into curries anyway) and she will not touch salad type stuff.
I'm struggling to get her to try more things that are good for her like sweet potato or brown rice/pasta.
At the moment she is surviving on pasta, potato or rice based meals. I'm a dab hand at hidden veg sauces but I doubt she's getting enough goodness from those kinds of meals.
She loves most fruit and she eats aubergine,tomatos, carrots, onions, roasted peppers, butternut squash and loves spinach but that's it that's everything she eats + a carb.
She eats marmite, won't touch peanut butter or nutella type stuff so lunch is usually hard work.
At best with the dairy restrictions and egg avoidance I feel she is almost going into vegan territory!

GP referred us to paediatrician about lactose intolerance. Paediatrician then referred her to dietician.
We see the dietician every few months but they just ask the same questions about the lactose intolerance and they are mainly focussed on her weight. I've tried to raise my concerns but they say she seems fine and let's get her more active (I would love her to be even more active...but she is exhausted!)
I'll admit she is overweight, but my main concern is her health.
DD is almost as tall as DS11 so I have been giving her almost the same portion sizes as him. I encourage them to eat till their full not and not to force feed themselves.DS is very (hyper) active so he manages to maintain a healthy weight and is always at maximum energy levels, I can't really compare the two as they have completely different diets and lifestyles. Out of the two DS has access to unhealthy choices and I know he over indulges himself but his physical health is fine.

DD seems to struggle with her energy levels, she is quite active during the school day walks to and from school, plays sports during break and runs around a bit with her brothers at home. But she gets tired and breathless very quickly. I also worry because I give a healthy snack after school and when we get home she is still hungry. Usually after school she tries to fall asleep. Obviously I wake her but she's incredibly moody and wants something to eat again! I try to have dinner earlier but then she will be hungry again before bed we've tried filling up on water between meals and snacks but none of this is breaking her cycle of low energy & excessive hunger. I dont know what to do I know something isnt right but I don't know how to help her.

I'm not sure how to effectively 'replace' any vitamins/minerals/nutrients shes lost by giving up meat. Plus I want to give her an energy boost and keep her well during this difficult time with puberty.
What I need to know is has anyone had a similar experience and can advise me of what supplements I could give her?

Apologies for the long post and Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Hi
I haven’t had experience with a daughter as I have a younger son but from reading your post I am wondering if your daughter has become anaemic? Her tiredness and breathlessness are both symptoms of this and it may be diet related.
I don’t know if she likes raisins but they are a good haemoglobin producing food source. Also dark chocolate if that’s ok with her lactose intolerance. Maybe you could google some foods and between you put together a diet?

I would be concerned about her iron levels, too, and it seems that her diet is a carb overload with very little protein. I would try everything possible to get her to eat eggs, maybe a veggie frittata would work, and encourage her to try some fish. Clearly her diet is not working for her. She shouldn't be so tired and she should definitely not be overweight.

Fellow lactose intolerant person here. Did you know you can buy lactase tablets? If I have a couple of those I can drink normal dairy lattes and eat dominos pizzas etc without a problem. I go through periods where I can tolerate more lactose and find it easier to supplement myself with lactase than to avoid lactose.

It does sound like she could be anaemic too.

Does she like tofu? We make deep fried tofu a lot and our kids love it.

Or crispy seaweed? Lots of iron and done right, it’s basically like crisps.

If you look into some East Asian cooking styles, you might find stuff she likes and it’s almost all lactose free. My husband is Korean so we cook a lot of Korean food - it can easily be made vegetarian. Kim bap is easy to make - just rice and any filling you like, wrapped in seaweed. And most stuff doesn’t require too many ingredients, as long as you have soy sauce and red pepper paste.

Thanks for the replies and helpful advice.

Allnightlong2016
I didnt realise they were symptoms of anaemia, thank you. I've been to the dietician and g.p with my concerns about her iron levels but they have never taken blood tests. I've just been advised to give her more iron rich foods which I have really been trying to do.

She's a big fan of spinach raw or cooked.

I think she should be able to have dark choc because it doesn't have much milk but I dont think she will eat It as she only likes white choc. But maybe I could melt it down for her to dip her fruit into ?

Aquamarine1029
You're right she is basically living off carbs with just a few veggies.
I don't know how I can give her more proteins. I do 'hide' a lot of things like I blend up beans in currys, chilli etc but it's very time consuming and I'm sure I'm just blitzing out all the good stuff. If she catches so much as a stray lentil she will not trust me. Protein is very difficult right now. I've been so focused on making her something she will actually eat that im overlooking the important things! I remember hearing paneer was a good source of protein and she used to like it but im not sure how that would work with being lactose intolerant.
She doesnt like 'soya meats' she will only eat two quorn products so I end up alternating the same meals all the time. I've begged her to consider a little meat or fish again but it's an ethical thing for her at the moment, she actually wanted to be vegan but i put my foot down.
She has always gagged at the smell of eggs. The only way I can get her to eat egg is via pancake which I obviously don't want to feed her all the time.
I could try a frittata, as she loves roasted peppers and they might mask that eggy smell.

SweetLike
Hi thanks for the reply I've heard of those but I'm not sure if it's suitable for a 9yo ?
Do you need to take it only once per day?

I will see if I can try those tablets so she can be included with certain food activities at school and her cooking clubs again. She often feels left out at school, they won't even let her have school dinner anymore.
I've tried to explain it's an intolerance not a life threatening allergy...but they'd rather be safe than sorry.

To be totally honest I'm not overly worried about her dairy intake at the moment as she still gets recommended amount from her lactose free products but it would be better to use the regular dairy products because they are often fortified with vitD, Folic acid, Iron etc

ThisIsTheFirstStep I've recently discovered korean food amd love the way it is so comforting. I've recently been making a few bit here and there at home. I love love love the simplicity of a nice big bowl of bimibap and usually do it veggie but have some cooked meat and fried eggs on the side for the rest of us.

Kimbap, Is that the big roll that looks like a sushi burrito?

No we havent tried tofu yet, I don't know where I would find it. Are you in the UK, where do you buy it? I would also like to find some authentic red pepper paste. my homemade attempt was pretty bland!

My daughter has expressed an interest in trying tofu and also seaweed. But until I saw your suggestions they didn't sound too appealing to be honest.
Would you mind giving me your recipe for the deep fried tofu and seaweed snacks please. They sound like something DD would really enjoy.

Gamsahamnida

I’m vegetarian (was vegan) and I have a few suggestions, hopefully something might help...

Please stop asking her to eat fish & meat. I understand you’re worried about her, but it’s really hard when you feel people don’t respect your beliefs, especially those you love the most.

I don’t really eat eggs either. I never eat ‘an egg’ or quiche type things, I make egg free pancakes and never buy eggs etc, but I’ll eat a little of something that has a little egg in it.

Waitrose do a Basil infused Tofu. It sounds revolting, but it’s actuslly really good (the olive one isn’t!). It’s in the fridge section near the quorn & cauldron things, tubs of salad, olives etc. Don’t tell her what it is, just slice some up or cube it & put it with the salad things she does like. It’s not ‘wobbly’ It’s firm.

Cauldron sausages are good, but you need to cook them in oil and for longer than the packaging says, they need to be really, really well cooked or they have a horrible texture. I buy two packets, cooked them after rubbing them in olive oil, have some hot for dinner and eat them others cold. Reasonable amounts of protein, low in carbs.

The Cauldron marinated tofu pieces are good too. I cook those in olive oil until they’re crunchy, great in salads or as a snack. Reasonable protein, low in carbs.

I avoid all Quorn now. I used to eat it, but having read up about it more, I now don’t. Some people have had awful reactions to it and it was making me a little gassy.

Avocado. A lot of people don’t like it, but I think that’s mostly because they’ve had one that under or over ripe. Both are vile, but a perfectly ripe avocado is food of the gods. I happily eat them out of the skin, but they’re great on toast or crackers with black pepper and very very thin sliver of cheese. In a salad.

Greek yogurt & berries.

Nuts. I eat roasted & salted almonds, cashews, macadamias and pistachio nuts. I can’t stand any others and I can’t eat those nuts raw. I can’t abide the taste or the texture. So it’s worth a bit of trial & error to see what she does like. Allow her to spit any out that she doesn’t like.

Oh & pine nuts, great in salads.

Food Doctor seed mix, again sounds pretty grim, but it’s really nice. I love it sprinkled on avocado, salads & on a bowl of Greek yogurt.

I often have a bowl of cubed cheddar, avocado, basil tofu & FD seeds.

It’s great she likes spinach & quite a few other veg. There’s a reasonable amount of protein in veg. Do you make Aubergine parmigiana?

Carbs make me very lethargic almost instantly.

You’re doing well to move her over to ‘brown rice & pasta’, just be sure to check it’s whole, not white with colour added.

(Have they tested her for T2 Diabetes?!)

Watch how much fruit she's having. It’s sugar as soon as it hits your body and you can get the vitamins through veg.

Try the Alpro yougurts, I like them, they don’t have that weird soy taste..

I hope something but in there is useful to you.

I'm not in the UK, but I use a "Vitamin Sprinkle" that I can get here for my 21 month old son - he is allergic to soy and dairy (all forms including cow, goat, etc). We were worried about him getting sufficient vitamins and minerals, and although he is now a great eater, we have been advised to continue the sprinkles for the foreseeable future. He also doesn't like nut milks, but I give him rice or oat milk on cereal, and a spoonful of the vitamins, and he loves that. Maybe you could try seeing if something similar is available for your daughter?

Just stop. Cook healthy veg meals, plate them up, and let her decide if she will eat them.

At 9 she should be able to understand basic nutrition facts so I’d sit down with her and show what nutrients she needs and what vegetarian food she needs to eat to get them. I’ve done this with my carb loving 9 year old and it’s working well, we look at Pinterest together and she points out dishes that look good—she’s picked some great ones too.

Don’t offer too much in the way of snacks, just something small when they finish school, otherwise they’re not hungry for dinner but hungry before bed and the whole cycle starts up again.

But I think you really need to take a step back. At the end of the day, it’s her body, she gets to decide what goes in it. Your job is to provide decent food. The more you worry about it, the bigger a problem it will become.

Carbs make me ridiculously hungry, it's to do with leptin (the hormone that makes you feel full) and the carbs mess with it.

AnnieAnoniMouse Thank you for all the helpful tips. I will definitely look out for the tofu. She does have a bit of fuss about texture so if it's firm she may like it.
She also likes seeds.
We do a lovely aubergine parmigiana (she likes it in a burger bun with spinach and I sneak a little mayo on the bun)

I didn't know that about the rice/pasta. I've just checked my bag and it only says brown. Thank you I will make sure I replace It for one that says 'whole'

No she hasn't been tested for T2 she hasn't been tested for anything Perhaps I need to be more persistent. I feel the g.p assumes because she has some weight on her she is fine, and dietician wants here more active even though I've told them she's lacking the energy.

Yeah the dentist warned me about fruit but it seems to be the only suitable snack I can offer at the moment that she won't fuss about.
She says the same about the alpro yogurt lol.
And no worries I definatley do respect her beliefs.
The time I begged her to eat a little meat/fish was because in the second week of her going veggie she got quite ill and at one point fainted and I panicked and blamed the new diet. I know it was unreasonable but I would have tried anything at that point.
I do check in every now and then to see if she's still happy to continue being veggie, as she has also noticed the difference in her energy levels, plus she still wanders out to sniff the meaty aromas and says it smells good but she won't eat it, so I just say "want some?" Always a no way poor animal your all disgusting lol .And she knows that we won't judge her if she does want it though. We try to enjoy some veggie meals together but I have an older child with ASD getting him to eat new things is a task in itself so I don't tend to change his meals.

I was "vegetarian" too up until I was a teen and my mum didn't pressure me either but they all ate meat so the option was available. I have no Idea how I didnt feel like crap 24/7 because i didnt eat any veg! Or much fruit come to think of it. I did take multiple vitamins though but mum cant remember which ones. I also ended up overweight when I started puberty and started to crave meat too so I went for it and gradually added in healthier foods as I got older. I'm happy to accommodate their preferences as long as they are willing to work with me on trying new things, helping shop and prepare etc

Thank you all advice Is helpful and much appreciated x

Splendify
Hi thanks I'm hoping to find a suitable supplement just while she adjusts to the changes, what is the name of that product, I may be able to order it after I check with dietician if she can try it.

The one we use is Cenovis Vita Sprinkle - it is flavourless, and can be added to hot or cold foods. As I said, I'm not in the UK, but hopefully you might be able to find an equivalent. Wishing you and your daughter well!

UserX
Hi we've tried alot of your suggestions already we are still going through the motions of trying new things and watching portions etc.
I make sure she is involved in her meal plans and we decide together if we will introduce a new veg to a meal she already enjoys sometimes it's a hit sometime not.
But her love for carbs is a tricky one, I have been trying recently to give her less (got a different plate so it's not noticeable)
Her after school snack would usually be something like a Clementine or some plain breadsticks and raisins or just an apple. Nothing huge.
I had taken a step back but I'm noticing she's not doing too well. So i need to get involved again. I can deal with the fussy eating with time but it's just hard getting the correct nutrients especially while I'm being pressured to make her lose the weight. Just wanna keep her healthy and obvs don't want her getting any issues around food.

Eliza9917
I never knew that, I always thought carbs were very filling x

Splendify
Thank you, I'll speak to dietician and see if they can recommend something similar.

IlikemyTeahot Sun 18-Mar-18 14:56:54

Eliza9917
I never knew that, I always thought carbs were very filling x

They aren't if you have insulin issues. Its all tied in together, the glucose response, insulin and leptin. It is actually disgusting how much I can eat after a couple of days of eating carbs. I'm like a bottomless pit. The dr's have said I'm pre-diabetic, and carby/junk/processed/gluten foods give me irritable bowel symptoms, make me lethergic, and give me inflammation so they just don't agree with some people.

Being very hungry and very tired are both symptoms of an under active thyroid. I think you need to get her to the GP and push for blood work, to include tests for anemia, thyroid issues, and diabetes issues. If you do this, ask for the full thyroid panel, not just TSH

Eliza9917
SeaToSki
Thank you both, I was hoping it would be something I could fix with vitamins but after reading some of the replies here I've realised there could be something quite serious going on.
I think it would be best to go back to G.P to rule it all out. I assumed it was the change in diet but perhaps that might just be highlighting previous issues.
I expected blood test when she was first referred to paediatrician but it never happened.

Kimbap is rice, filled with vegetables/meat and wrapped in seaweed.

Other good, easy to convert for vegetarian stuff includes kim chi jjigae, ddeokbokki, kim chi bokkeumbap (stir fried rice with kim chi), kim chi jeon (kim chi pancakes) and bindaeddeok. I don't really have recipes because my MIL taught me to make them, but there are tons of recipes online. Mostly it's pretty easy to cook. I know a lot of people love the Maangchi website.

As far as I know it's pretty easy to buy tofu in the UK, but I've not lived there for ages so I don't really know. There are a few different types, for stir-frying you need firm tofu. If you have an Asian supermarket near you, they would know.

We normally just fry seaweed in salt and sugar, but there are millions of types and I really don't know what it's called in English. Again, if you have an Asian supermarket, they'd probably know (I think it's more Chinese than Korean.)

Seaweed soup is good too, lots of iron so it's good for vegetarians. I eat it when I'm on my period and when I was pregnant too. A lot of people hate the texture though, personally I love it.

For red pepper paste, you might have to look online. I'm assuming it isn't vegetarian, most stuff have anchovies in, so you'd have to look for a specialist vegetarian brand, I think.

Will probably get flamed for this, but hey ho. You mentioned that her elder brother has ASD - is it possible that she could too? My daughter is suspected to be on the autistic spectrum, and she is obsessed with food. I find it very hard to control her weight. Also there is a link between ASD and stomach issues - it's possible she isn't absorbing enough nutrients. ASD definitely runs in my family, and none of us have been able to be vegan/vegetarian successfully - we always end up deficient in something, even when we are very careful with our diets.

ThisIsTheFirstStep Thanks we will look up some of those things.
We do have a Chinese market nearby, I'll be going in the next few days so I will see what we can get.
Oh I'm so glad you told me about the anchovies, at the chinese store sometimes the packaging doesn't have english and one of the lady only speaks chinese.

Areyoufree I wouldnt be surprised tbh as my youngest Ds2 was showing signs and I thought I was overthinking it until HV flagged it up. So yay got all that to go through again. I have been suspecting ADD or similar with her but I also know she's under a lot of stress with her big bro...so I havent been able to find a 'good time'. It's like I've been waiting for DS1 stuff to be done with then I can see to hers. I know thats not Ideal but DS1 is very hard work.
It's been a bumpy ride with my eldest no diagnosis until 8+ were still back and forth trying to find out what's what. Before that I was basically told it was my shitty parenting 🤣 so I'm reluctant to take my Dd to G.P when she Is doing ok at school (apart from non stop talking/interrupting)
same school DS1 was at last year and when I tried to get help with him they treated me like I was making it all up...really offputting and took me a long time to get the confidence to keep pushing, was very satisfying to slap the diagnosis paper on the heads desk though.
I hear ASD presents differently in girls. She does have a lot of issues with certain things and is highly sensitive to smells and sounds but I thought that was just her nature (or my shitty parenting again lol)
Tbh there's a lot of it going around our house so hard to tell what is genuine and what's being picked up/copied from others. We literally all have behaviours that would be seen as "on the spectrum"

ThisIsTheFirstStep
We've had the rice cakes I knew them as Tteokbokki. I love them. She hates the texture. Thanks for the names of foods I copied and pasted for recipes...There are so many I wanted to try but didn't know what they were called before. It all looks soo good. I think the pancakes may be the way forward and she is very eager to try kimbap. Hopefully we will be making a veggie and a meat one this weekend. Im sure we will enjoy making and eating it!
I watch too many korean dramas have been dreaming about the food

glad there is some stuff there you can try. I checked out our tub of gochujang and it actually seems like it’s vegetarian so you should be fine.

Another thing you can try is pajeon, which is green onion pancakes.

Personally I hate Korean dramas in the main, too much yelling and wrist-grabbing. I enjoyed Signal though.