To dislike ‘deprived area’ being used as a synonym for ‘badly behaved children’

[Dolphincrossing]

Aibu?

To me, it just seems quite rude. ‘You’re poor, so your kids will misbehave.’

Quite an unpleasant attitude really.

Who says this?

I taught for years in a deprived area of London, and the behaviour certainly was one of the challenges, but I didn’t employ this phrase.

It is unpleasant, but sometimes it's factually correct. A deprived area will have a higher proportion of behavioural issues.

That doesn't mean ALL kids from a deprived area will be horrible. And it doesn't mean NO kids from a wealthier area won't be horrible.

I can see why the categorisation would be upsetting.

Is deprived just a euphemism for 'rough' now? Kind of seems like it.

Bad behaviour can be contributed to a number of factors
Hunger
Poor diet
Lack of space or outdoor space
No privacy
Too many siblings
Stress at home - lack of money
No treats etc
Not having 'stuff' so unable to concentrate or do the homework etc
Uninterested parents
Disable parents or caters of parents
Friends who are disengaged with education

Behaviour tells you the child is unhappy - they don't misbehave because it's fun!

So there would on average be more unhappy children in a deprived area - however a school with good pastural care with a stable staff and welcoming environment can change that child's outcome.

Children are inherently bad but their circumstances may well be

*arent

Low privilege areas will contain those parents who are dysfunctional, statistics will then equate to children being badly behaved because of circumstances that are beyond their control being linked to deprivation.

Low privilege areas will contain those parents who are dysfunctional,

I assume you mean a higher proportion of those parents who are dysfunctional? There are dysfunctional rich and privileged parents too.

‘You’re poor, so your kids will misbehave.’
is wrong.

And I don't think schools think that way.

However "you don't like the institution of 'school' and will challenge it at every opportunity and encourage your kids to do so too" is an issue for schools (which ARE an institution and DO encourage children and parents to behave in certain ways [children turning up on time, in uniform, parents coming to events/parents evenings, etc] and schools do find this challenging).

People who've been failed by the system of education don't support it (other than grudgingly) when they have children of their own. And their children pick up on this attitude.

YANBU. Big assumption in my town that the two schools on the 'rough' and 'cheaper end of town' are full of scally fuckwit children

(there's no such difference. There's children with difficulties is every year of every one of the 5 primaries in this town, its purely snob factor. Incidentally, houses on the 'nice' side of town are about £80% more expensive)

*£80k

Children from deprived areas tend to fare less well and often it's linked to behaviour for many reasons stated above.

Their outcomes are likely to be bleaker too hence pupil premium had to be introduced to try and close the gap for their sakes.

Good post from GreenTulips.

I'd dislike the idea if it were used to make uninformed assumptions about all children living in deprivation.

I don't mind the idea if it is coming from a place that recognises that children living in poverty face additional challenges and more should be demanded from society as a whole to support children living in poverty.

As many have said, behaviour is a form of communication; 'poor' behaviour is often communicating a whole lot of stuff a child doesn't have any other means of communicating. It may also be 'poor' behaviour in that it doesn't fit with the norms of a school (and may be poor socialisation or related to SEND-related inability to fit with those norms).

In that first category (and in the second for a lot of reasons) fall many - not all but quite a few, children who are living in poverty - and those children do often live in areas that are geographical pockets of poverty.

Those children have to contend with all sorts. Hunger is real, terrible accommodation, stressed parents who are dealing with poverty-related issues, really big stuff (family members dead through gang violence and parents in jail through the same), MH issues in parents (which is also poverty-related).

How well do you think you - an adult - would deal with all of that?

The amazing thing is that children are amazingly resilient and many children will try so very hard to please adults - including those in schools.

It's probably a good time to point out that the government has cut access to free school meals for a whole swathe of the child population. 6,000 in my borough alone.

How's that going to help with behaviour?

"Low privilege areas will contain those parents who are dysfunctional"

There are dysfunctional Parents in all walks of life. Children are less affected if the Parents have money to throw at their problems. So childcare, extra curriculum lessons/hobbies. Cleaner for the home etc.

Poverty and lack of opportunities brings issues and causes a reaction. Strategies were put in place to try to undo the effect of Poverty and raise living standards, but that's gone. What we don't spend at School age, we spend on the Justice system.

I live in a deprived area and it's more the assumption around intelligence levels that pisses me off the most. You'd have to be thick as mince to make assumptions and stereotype, though, which is ironic.

Well I live in a deprived area and the children's behaviour is awful. So YANBU.

Green Tulips l teach in a country school where some children are badly behaved. They suffer from none of the things you listed. Some children are just wild. Also my dc went to a private Secondary and some of the most badly behaved children wouldn"'t fit into any of those categories either.

I teach in a deprived area (high levels of unemployment, high number of children claiming fsm, ect.) but behaviour at our school is NOT an issue. Slt are hot on teaching without distraction and chn who misbehave are dealt with by them (over low level stuff that the teacher deals with as anywhere). Playground issues are expected to be dealt with on the playground and not in class time. Chn who have issues at home are given the support they need (via school and pushing for the further support of appropriate- SS/domestic violence support/ect)

Deprived area from a social sciences aspect means the lack of any clubs, or things for children/teens to do. Like a lack of youth clubs, and parks. Which can lead to bad behaviour but doesn't mean it.

"you don't like the institution of 'school' and will challenge it at every opportunity and encourage your kids to do so too" is an issue for schools (which ARE an institution and DO encourage children and parents to behave in certain ways [children turning up on time, in uniform, parents coming to events/parents evenings, etc] and schools do find this challenging).
This ^^

There are many children from disadvantaged background that work their backsides off.
There are dysfunctional parents in all areas (at least based on my experience).

I really don't like the 'expect less from the poorer children' mentality (which does exist in places) but the biggest barrier I've found to student behaviour is when a student, of any background, has a parent who simply wants to undermine school, kick off about stuff just because well it's school and you lot are trying to bully kids. I don't like that rule so I'll complain if you tell my DC to follow it. (And you get that in leafy suburbia too)

Well, I work in a very, very deprived area (in healthcare) and the behaviour of the children and adults is one of the major problems we have to deal with. Most people have a very low educational level, and poor parenting skills. Around 3/4 of the children are on the ‘at risk’ register.
‘Deprivation’ (poverty, crime, poor life opportunties) is linked to family breakdown, abuse, drug use, violence, crime. It’s surely no surprise that children (and adults) living in deprived areas are more likely to have issues?
This doesn’t mean we should write them off, or stop trying to sort the situation out. But I get really annoyed when people chime in with the ‘oh you get the same issues in affluent areas!’ argument. No, you don’t. At all.

I used to work in a disadvantaged area. I loved it, there were some challenges with children not having what they needed, not being used to outdoor space and some neglect.

However, I've worked for the last 2 years in a much more priveledged area. In my circumstance the behaviour is a different sort of challenging, "mummy says I don't have to do that" plus children who are unable to wait two minutes while you help someone else. They are much less independent and I have met several who a clearly never told they can't do something.

I wasn't expecting that.

I agree with Birds regarding the assumption about intelligence. I think it's really sad/annoying that people assume all children from poorer families are thick and will go nowhere in life.

Who even says that?? I live within a deprived area and our school is actually regularly praised for the children’s behaviour!?!?!

I’ve neber met anyone who think so poorer kids are thick. What is true though is that they face far more challenges and barriers to succeeding at school. It’s a good thing to recognise that. There are lots of reasons families end up in deprivation and many of those reasons also make it tough for the children to succeed at school.

I live in a deprived area the school closest to me has been awarded an Outstanding for their OFSTED report. I had a read of it and the children's behaviour is excellent. Just to list a few of their qualities: children are thoughtful, polite and listen to the teachers quietly during lessons.

Poverty in childhood and Adverse Childhood Experiences lead to behavioural problems in adolescents and adulthood if left unchecked, this is a known fact. So rather than perpetually blaming people for the ACEs their parents give them and they in turn give their children, surely it's more important to ask "how can we break this cycle?"