To think that the more we learn, the less binary sex is?

[DietCokeGirrrrrl]

Read this article, found it so interesting -

scopeblog.stanford.edu/2015/02/24/sex-biology-redefined-genes-dont-indicate-binary-sexes/

It's only a short article but it indicates just how much we have to learn about sex and much of our current understanding is based on assumptions that aren't supported by science.

Humans are amazing. Science is amazing. The universe is constantly unfolding in new ways before our eyes! NATURE IS INCREDIBLE!

Is it half term?

Yes. That’s intersex and chromosome disorders. Nothing to do with transgenderism. It’s a false conflation. A lot of the people who are affected by the conditions concerned are very upset by the info being misused by this. I am one. I have PCOS. I have 3 children. I am female.

Don't know, I don't have kids!

I'm not talking about transgenderism, sorry that wasn't clear! Sex and gender are totally different and this article is all about sex it's just so interesting to me because I was so confident that sex (albeit not gender) was binary. I thought it was 1 chromosome, had no idea that the interaction of lots of different DNA is involved

Nope.

Firstly it’s an op ed piece. Secondly in humans sex is binary. Some people are born with three legs, or one, and that doesn’t mean the human default of bilateral symmetry in limb development needs changing.

DSDs generally affect the development of the person but they are still recognisably one sex. Intersex people are all either one sex chromosomally or another.

Some species (certain types of bug) have several sexes. Humans have two.

I’ve seen this ‘I’m going To use lots of science words’ approach from TRAs quite a bit recently, is this the new approach?

I’m a geneticist and developmental biologist by the way.

Disorders of sexual development have nothing to do with men wanting to wear dresses.

Every human being ever born grew from an egg and a sperm. That's as binary as you can get.

much of our current understanding is based on assumptions that aren't supported by science.

The science is pretty solid. Which bits are you unsure of? Sex is binary in humans.

Gender is a ridiculous social construct that does more harm that good. Sex is a neutral biological fact.

@Anatidae I think that at the very least this shows that we don't have all the answers yet and that there is huge scope for learning more about this subject I don't think any scientists ever feel comfortable closing the book on a subject and determining the question completely answered.

This really is a separate thing to trans activism as transgenderism is just that - to do with gender. TRAs aren't really in the business of arguing about sex, and I don't really see how it affects any arguments about transgenderism to acknowledge that biological sex is complicated and we have lots still to learn about it!

Every human being ever born grew from an egg and a sperm. That's as binary as you can get.

I can't believe it, but this obviously needs repeating.

Statistical outliers do not change the majority reality. Sex is binary.

@athingthateveryoneneeds I don't think you're wrong to acknowledge that the majority of people are either male or female, but as that isn't true of all humans there are still questions to answer! If we say human sex can only be binary then the logical conclusion is that non-binary humans aren't actually human. Since that obviously doesn't make sense we have to accept that human sex is usually binary - but not always! And that is a really interesting area for science to explore in my opinion, because we don't know that much about it and we haven't totally determined exactly what constitutes sex.

I have to go back to work now so I may not be on the thread for a while but I'll check in later! It's an interesting discussion!

I don't think you're wrong to acknowledge that the majority of people are either male or female, but as that isn't true of all humans there are still questions to answer!

But it is true

Sex is binary.

I must confess I'm beginning to get amused at just how bloody masculine the whole TRA approach is - oh the irony!- to try to bully everyone as the facts simply don't fit their agenda. Is 'transplaining' actually a word yet? It should be by now surely 😂😂

TRAs aren't really in the business of arguing about sex

Take a look at Twitter. A lot of them do actually argue that trans women are “literally biologically female”.

If we say human sex can only be binary then the logical conclusion is that non-binary humans aren't actually human.

So if we agree that humans are bipedal then the logical conclusion is that one legged humans aren't actually human?

That kind of logic is what I would consider a fallacy.

biological sex is complicated and we have lots still to learn about it!

It’s not that complicated. It’s one of the simpler genetic cascade type processes. We know a great deal about it and we have a very good handle on how the entire process works, including the vast majority or genes, genetic control loci and other genetic material that contribute.

I don’t think it’s correct to say that it’s still some sort of mystery that needs unravelling. We know in great detail how it works.

It does feed the TRA agenda to say ‘oh so much still to learn which may yet be used as ammo for our agenda.’

Then non binary humans aren’t actually himan

That’s very poor logic and you can drive a bus through it. The defaulnfor humans is two legs. That doesn’t make a child with sirenomelia non human (what an awful thing to say) it makes them a hold with a disordernof limb development.

I know what you’re getting at - you want Science to Give You An Answer you like. But science has no agenda. Sex is default binary. There are rare abnormalities in sex development just like there are with limb, eye and indeed body acis development.

By your ‘logic’ Siamese twins, sirenomelic babies, children born without eyes or ears or limbs, and children with polydactyly are not human.

Is your surname Barnum by any chance?