AIBU to think expat families returning to the UK but leaving the wage earner behind (not paying UK tax) is possibly illegal (and not just cheeky) behaviour?

[RagingExExpat]

Looking for both opinion and factual content regarding this dilemma as it has confused me for many reasons.

Background - I am an ex-expat and I returned to the UK a while ago with my husband and children.

Many of my friends / people I know of are also planning returns (it's that sort of time - approaching secondary age children and, therefore, schooling prices increase in their current country of residence) and I have heard of quite a few people planning to return with their children but leave their husband (in most cases) behind in the current country of residence.

The plan is to have a family living in the UK with children in school, NHS used etc but the wage-earner staying on in the current country and, therefore, not paying UK income tax as, presumably, the wage-earner won't be in the country for more than the appropriate number of days during a tax year so not eligible.

This feels COMPLETELY wrong to me on a gazillion levels (morally as well as personally for the families involved albeit that's their decision) but, here, I'd like opinions on the tax element of it.

Is this tax evasion / illegal? Surely at some point there would need to be a declaration of where the money to pay the mortgage / bills etc is coming from - particularly obvious if the wife isn't working here at all. Additionally, do you think anyone would be bothered enough (apart from me, obviously!) to report them to HMRC for this if it became obvious the husband lived away and the new school-gate type friends suspected foul play...?

As an aside, I've also, sadly, been in the position whereby friends have returned to the UK when marriages have broken down. For family support etc more than anything else - albeit it is harder to stay in the country I was in without a VISA, and many wives and families are under husbands' visas etc so, sometimes, it may have been a forced move. I understand in those circumstances that an ex-husband may stay on and still be a resident in the country and pay his ex-wife maintenance etc. I can see that is different to the above.

However, when you're all still a family and totally connected but one group are in the UK 'claiming', for want of a better phrase, against UK benefits (schooling, NHS etc) but not paying any income tax due to location of the wage earner. This is shady isn't it or am I being OTT and it's not illegal at all?

What do you all think oh wise Mumsnetters?!

TIRF I live in Germany, though I'm an immigrant not an expat. When we first lived here I used to hang out in expat circles a bit, and the contracts people had were very mixed. Some had "help" with school fees rather than fees paid, others had fees paid but only for a specific school, others had nothing. Teachers at the international school only got a fee reduction, not fees paid, and only for two children.

It depends on country not just seniority, but so what if the job isn't senior and doesn't come with fees paid?

Surely they're paying to run two sets of households? As such, not necessarily creaming a massive profit.

General taxation - including VAT collected by HMRC - funds schools, hospitals etc in the UK. As such of course the family are contributing to these services.

I think you need to find yourself a hobby rather than concerning yourself with the financial affairs of other families, in all honesty.

I think there are issues when the person living and working abroad visits the UK - there are limits on the time they are allowed to spend here before having to pay income tax irrespective of where the income is earned (vague memory of friend's situation a few years ago so may be different now).

Presumably they are British citizens? Do you also getting annoyed at people who don't work or who earn below the income tax threshold and dare to use public services?

YABU.

How other people arrange their family lives is no concern of yours.

A bit surprised about the assumption that the scenario must all be about the money!

My DH does humanitarian work in hostile environments. Clearly, we cannot accompany him. We were overseas for years, I didn’t even get maternity pay despite having contributed UK NI and tax for years. I am back working and paying tax in the UK. I have been fortunate enough to never need benefits.

My DH earns a good wage and pays tax in his location- but then again he puts himself at risk every day. His money contributes towards our UK living expenses, so it benefits the UK.

Overall we add value to the UK, even with school places and the occasional doctors appointment.

My DH loves his work and is very good at it, and it was the best option going in his field of work- and that’s why we do this.

Believe me, I sleep perfectly well at night safe in the knowledge that we are not bad or immoral people

They will be paying council tax, VAT, and lord knows how many stealth taxes. Stop worrying about it.

op I think the advice you were given to cut all ties is extreme and is directed towards being non domiciled rather than non resident. The two are quite different and most expats moving abroad for business and intending to return would be non resident. To be non domiciled you have to show you have cut ties and lived abroad for many years.
There are clear if complex rules for non residency depending on time spent out of the UK and any income derived from UK sources. There are conditions related to family ties to the UK as well to determine if you are genuinely non resident. However, income tax is a personal tax and if family members in the UK do not earn, they do not pay income tax... same as applies to any individual. Them's the rules and there is absolutely nothing wrong with the earner living abroad and the family in the UK. Double taxation rules would cover most countries in the world anyway.

We did this - came 'home' after 20 years overseas for kids to go to Uni - we paid full Uni fees for both kids. I have worked while back so am paying into the system and worked prior to going overseas. In the 20 years we were away we didn't claim anything (child benefit eg) by previous and current NI and tax payments. You may also find that these families you are talking about are still covered by private medical insurance paid for by the husband's company as we were even though we were in UK and he was elsewhere. We also, while we were overseas, kept up our NI payments as did many of our friends to 'keep us in the system'

Not sure what your problem is tbh as it's quite possible that many of those you are condemning have kept their NI payments up.

Unless you know exactly what their situation is you can't really comment.

Tax is a legal imperative, not a moral one. Otherwise, every tax payer who had a bit left over for savings at the end of the month would offer it up to the government because, you know, morally they could afford it. The term Tax Avoidance should be banned. It would help everyone. If it’s shit, ban it. If you don’t like it, campaign against it, but don’t demonise the people who, legally, pay the least amount of tax that they legally owe. In the skewed words of Yoda, ‘There is evasion or there is no evasion. There is no avoid’. Your ‘shall I report it’ stance made me lol. ‘Hello, HMRC, I’d like to report someone for tax evasion’. ‘Ooooh excellent, what tax?’, ‘UK income tax’, ‘Ok, how much UK income do they have?’, ‘None’, ‘Er, okaaaaay,’.
There’s a lot in your posts that sounds like the green eyed monster.
Weeee had soooo much money, now we’ve had to come back and pay taaaaxxxx......waaaahhhhh.

Presumably, all the time you were ‘expats’, you remained British citizens and retained all of the consular and diplomatic protections that conveyed to you whilst you lived your extravagant life abroad? It also meant that if, you’d returned you would be entitled to NHS care, benefits, etc etc. Nice little back up,privilege to have. How much have you offered the UK government for that privilege?

Raging - I'm sorry if you feel a tad beaten up by the overall tone of the thread. I've done threads before and come out the end black & blue! The thing is, people will question your motivations. Ask yourself.....is my bug really driven by a sense of civic duty or fair citizenship? Or is my bug being driven by a sense that someone up the road is getting something for free that I'm not? If you did raise a red flag to HMRC, chances are they will do Jack shit about it, but may take your details and have a good pour over your own affairs. There are many worse places in the world to live than the UK for all its faults.

Also, how is it any different to British people who work abroad and live abroad, and then when they retire or lose their job return to the UK?

And why on earth should people not do that?