Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be slightly horrified at how poor my basic skills are?

389 replies

primrosesandmaths · 14/03/2018 08:57

In my professional, graduate profession, I have just been told I have to work out something as a percentage.

I have no idea how to do it.

I shall google - it isn’t an advice thread as such, but my maths is just dire and I can’t help wondering if this is common or whether I am an imposter in my role.

OP posts:
Kazzyhoward · 15/03/2018 17:10

I wish that schools would put better emphasis on getting the basics right with good functional skills

Nothing to stop schools concentrating on the basics first and then having pathways to move forward afterwards? No point wasting everyone's time trying to teach a language to someone who can't read & write, or algebra to someone who doesn't know their tables and prime numbers. That wasted time could be better spent on the basics which then enables the pupil to move onto the more complicated things. I think the biggest killer is the "yearly" nature of schools, where kids are pushed through according to age rather than ability. Why not have kids moving up according to ability, meaning mixed aged pupils in the same class, but of similar abilities, rather than of similar age but different abilities? That allows some to progress quicker or do extra subjects, and others to progress slower or do fewer subjects. Personally, I struggled for many reasons, but managed to persuade the school to allow me to re-take a year with a younger age group and I massively benefitted even though I wasn't in classes with my own age group anymore.

MereDintofPandiculation · 15/03/2018 17:25

I'm struggling to see why you need to know your times tables to do algebra. You need to understand the concept of multiplication and of factors, and it'll be a lot quicker if you can, for example, instantly recognise that 6 is 2 x 3. But there's no need to know your 7 times table for example.

Do they still teach tables up to 12 x 12?

ItNeedsMoreGlitter · 15/03/2018 17:30

Haha I’ve found my tribe ... I’m a company director with a masters in business. Can not fathom percentages for the life of me. My eyes just glaze over in terror!! I have a ‘cheat sheet’ photocopied from my nieces maths book in the front of my work diary for emergencies where I have to calculate a percentage. She’s 11 and can do them in her sleep 😂

MrsHathaway · 15/03/2018 17:34

Do they still teach tables up to 12 x 12?

Yes. Must be solid by end y4 (age 9). There's a times tables test as part of y6 SATs.

MereDintofPandiculation · 15/03/2018 17:53

So why do they still do times tables up to 12? Originally they used to do it because it was useful for shillings and pennies. And for feet and inches. But there's no point now. If there was any sense you'd do 2,3,5,7,11 and anything else'd be optional.

When I ran out of times tables, my teacher wanted me to do 14 and 16 (stones and lbs) but I did 13 because the numbers are nicer.

DrCoconut · 15/03/2018 18:24

It is cultural. In general people in the uk would be embarrassed to be unable to read but being unable to do basic calculations is ok. Until we get past that there will always be a problem. I'm not saying stigmatise those who struggle btw, just that shrugging off being unable to add up should be as unthinkable as shrugging off being unable to read say a basic letter from the council or a utility company. Both are essential life skills.

BlackForestCake · 15/03/2018 18:26

I can do long division. Why am I not earning six figures???

MereDintofPandiculation · 15/03/2018 19:06

Because with calculators and spreadsheets, being able to do a division sum more slowly on a bit of paper is no longer a marketable skill.

Kazzyhoward · 15/03/2018 19:34

If there was any sense you'd do 2,3,5,7,11

Exactly why schools are failing too many pupils. On the one side, you have modernist educationalists saying there's no need to teach tables at all because of calculators (which is stupid when algebra etc is taught). One the other side, you have traditional educationalists saying you still need the 12 times table simply because that's how it's always been done. Common sense would dictate the 2,3,5,7,11 being taught only, simply due to them being required for algebra etc, simply because algebra continues to be taught. This is just one of the many "tweaks" that need to be made to the education system. But sadly, with the yo-yo mentality, we lurch from one extreme to the other.

Kazzyhoward · 15/03/2018 19:36

Because with calculators and spreadsheets, being able to do a division sum more slowly on a bit of paper is no longer a marketable skill.

It's certainly a good skill to have so that you can do proper "sanity" checking of your calculator/spreadsheet calculations. Otherwise how would you know whether the answer on the screen was right or not. I work daily with other peoples' spreadsheets and would say that over 90% I see contain pretty significant errors, i.e. errors that radically change some of the resultant figures. Most of these are due to simple operator error of not using the right keys in the right order or not entering the right equations into a spreadsheet cell.

camelfinger · 15/03/2018 19:46

I found percentages baffling as a child, so that was one area I did really concentrate on learning back then. I’m so glad I did - I use them every day in my job, and fast realised that no one else I work with can do them. I’m slightly embarrassed that I’m considered a maths genius at work based on my ability to calculate percentages. Have always had a decent job though, I’m glad I did listen that day!

Barbaro · 15/03/2018 19:56

Eh if you don't use something on a daily/weekly basis, it's easy to forget. I've forgotten all the German I learnt in high school. I've forgotten most things I learnt in high school, including maths.

If you have to Google it to remind yourself, who cares? I Google stuff like that at work sometimes just to be sure I am right. Would rather do it correctly than wrong.

geekymommy · 15/03/2018 20:20

A lot of the time, the problem with percentages isn't the math. That's pretty simple- one number divided by another. The hard bit is often figuring out "percent of what".

Graphista · 15/03/2018 20:28

I'm poor at maths but good at arithmetic.

I put it down to an excellent primary school run by traditionalists who believed in a solid foundation in the basics - arithmetic, spag, basic general knowledge.

"We also used to sit and recite the times tables. Which has never left me." I'm almost 46 and did the same, it was going "out of style" at the time but the head of my primary was insistent - she was right!

By the time I went to high school too broad a curriculum was being taught without depth to the knowledge or even being sure pupils had a good foundation level of knowledge first.

Imo this became worse as time went on and spread into primary schools.

BUT I don't blame teachers, I went to school in the 70's and 80's when teachers still had some input into what was taught, how and when.

Jump to now when those setting the curriculum/syllabus have NO idea how teaching or education works but expect teachers to get kids to pass a zillion exams in far too many subjects before they've had a chance to grasp the basics!

That said my GCSE teacher was an impatient, abrupt arse! Told me he knew I'd fail and so no he wasn't bothering helping me when I struggled with eg trig.

The college lecturer I had for retaking was amazing! Understood that his students were mostly retaking due to struggling with maths for whatever reason and was patient, clear and thorough. Went properly back to basics for the first half term which I'm sure really helped.

When I later went to uni aged 30 many of the 18/19 year olds on my course (English) despite having A/A* results at A-Level had VERY poor SPaG skills - and the university was SO used to dealing with this that a week was set aside at the beginning of the course to teach basics that really should have been learnt at primary level!

My parents (late 60's in age) would have no difficulty with percentages, long division, SPaG or general knowledge - both left school at 14!

"OP, almost everyone uses Excel worksheets to work out things like that" and therein lies the problem. The assumption a machine will get it right. A calculator or a spreadsheet has to have been programmed correctly in the first place to provide the correct answer. If you don't know at least roughly what the answer should be how will you know if the calculator has been tapped with an extra number or the formula entered on the spreadsheet was wrong?

"I used to work in retail, the number of people who asked me how much 10% off £10 would be was shocking."

"The instructor told the class to add 17.5% to each item, then add them all up. Mother asked if perhaps they could add them first, then add 17.5% to the total. "Oh no," said the instructor in horror. "You'd get a completely different answer." " oh dear god! 🙄

Firesuit I understand what you mean but correct rounding should generally eliminate that.

I've a better/worse one - buying 4 items costing 50p each - sales assistant took a ridiculous amount of time adding this up using paper pencil :

50p + 50p = £1 + 50p = £1.50 + 50p = £2

I kid you not! And narrated her calculations THEN input this into the till - SO painful

Fleshmarket - I suspect a big problem is SPaG errors not being corrected even in English subject work and worse not losing marks for this in exams.

I was working in an accounts dept when the 17.5% vat came in - the panic at having to deal with a half percent calculation was ridiculous.

"There should be more emphasis on maths in practice in the real world and understanding basics of finance and economics." Martin Lewis is basically campaigning for this

"Unless you actually want a job in science or engineering, in which case GCSE maths (and increasingly, A Level maths) simply isn't good enough. I know, who'd want a job in science or engineering?" Then maybe pupils should be able to choose between maths and arithmetic at 16? (not a choice I had but I believe it was available until the half generation before mine)

"We need to equip vastly more people with advanced maths at school, not fewer." Sorry but until the gap in knowledge at basic level is addressed that's not going to be achieved.

On a serious note I honestly believe the lack of good basic arithmetic education is a big reason so many get into unmanageable debt - they don't understand percentages let alone apr calculations! Which of course has wider implications for the economy.

NurseP · 15/03/2018 21:12

If I want to work out percentage, I work out 1% first.

So if I want to know 20% of 300

300 divide by 100 = 3.

If 1%is 3, then multiply by 20 to get 60.

1 %= 3

20%=60.

We're all different Primrose, you just need to find someone who can teach you in the best way for you to understand.

sidewayswithatescotrolley · 15/03/2018 21:14

Because with calculators and spreadsheets, being able to do a division sum more slowly on a bit of paper is no longer a marketable skill

But if you can't do it slowly on paper, if you don't know how its worked out, then you can't properly use the calculator or spreadsheet. You can't fix errors when you don't understand the process.

MereDintofPandiculation · 15/03/2018 21:40

sideways But the long division process isn't to do with the fundamentals of division, it's a way around not being able to do it all in one go in your brain. It's got no relevance to the calculator or spreadsheet. I totally agree with people saying you need to understand enough to know whether your spreadsheet has given the right answer. However all that's needed for that is a) to understand what division is and b) understand how to do a rough calculation - round the numbers until you get a sum you can do easily, and know whether the real result will be bigger or smaller than the rough calculation.

Algebra I think is fundamental. It's what helps you work out what the "without VAT' price is when you only have the total cost, it helps you know what compound interest adds up to over 5 years, anything whee you need to shift the numbers around, look at the problem from the other end.

And maybe if one didn't spend so much time learning the 12 times table by rote or practising long division, there'd be more time to explain basic concepts, and have a population who are able to, for example, assess relative risk.

Bolokov · 15/03/2018 22:04

I work out percentages with a calculator

Charley50 · 16/03/2018 06:27

I haven't got to the end of the thread but this is how I do it.

To find 12% of 25

Divide 25 by 100 to find 1%

25 divided by 100 = 0.25 (1%)

Multiply 0.25 by 12 to get 3 (12%)

So; 12% of 25 is 3.

This method works for any %

Charley50 · 16/03/2018 06:42

The same way Nurse P does it.

thecatsarecrazy · 16/03/2018 06:56

I can't help my son with most of his maths

GentleJones · 16/03/2018 07:04

Just on page one of the thread and to answer your question, OP, I only know as I have to look as if I know what I’m talking about when Ds brings his Y6 maths homework to me for guidance!

Agree with a pp, The Khan Academy is fantastic and I often watch clips on YouTube so I can help Ds if he needs it. I’ve had a few lightbulb moments (left school in the 80’s and always struggled with maths) and some things I never understood have suddenly ‘clicked’ almost 30 years later Blush

Charley50 · 16/03/2018 07:11

Oh and with that method it doesn't matter how big or scary the numbers are: it's always the same...

Divide the number you need a percentage of by 100, to find 1%.

Then multiply the number you get by the percentage you need.

Hope this helps.

LakieLady · 16/03/2018 07:12

I'm 62 and can still do mental arithmetic thanks to a daily mental arithmetic test all through primary school. I still know my tables, can do percentages and long division, and averages (all 3 types).

All through secondary, I was in the bottom group for maths and thought I was a dunce. After failing my o-level, I had to resit and had a different teacher, and passed with a B. Psychometric tests a few years ago put me in the 90th centile for numerical reasoning.

But show me current maths homework and it's like a foreign language. It means nothing, it's completely different. I have no idea what any of these new terms mean.

And as for basic skills, I left school with no idea how to cook anything except scrambled eggs, and couldn't sew if my life depended on it!

ZanyMobster · 16/03/2018 07:17

Bolokov - that's all very well, but you have to know what calculation to put in. Maths at school teaches you how to use a calculator too. I am an accountant so use %s etc every day but there are many non- finance stuff I have met that even with a calculator have asked me how they actually work out a % of something.

I lost a lot of mental maths skills at work as because of time pressure you automatically use spreadsheets/calculators, obviously you maintain a certain level as every answer I always sense check, ie if using complex formulae I may do a manual check to make sure it works but since having kids and then learning maths I have practiced with them to help them do homework etc and I have improved again. I can't remember how to do long division that well and had to practice simultaneous equations again now DS1 is in Y7 though but I don't really use that sort of stuff anymore.