to think children should not be left totally unsupervised in school.

[MerryMarigold]

Today was wet play. Very dreary day. Ds2 and dd said that during wet play they are unsupervised. They are in Y4. I am quite surprised by this. Is that normal? This was lunchtime. Ds2 said no one was in the room for at least 10 minutes.

Rainy, I wasn't expecting him to let it go. I said the punishment was extreme and the supervision lacking.

The supervision is standard and no-one can comment as to whether the punishment was extreme as you’re refusing to say what it was!

So they were pushing/shoving and got caught. Again. Sounds like kids.

Simple. Don't mess on. If you mess on and get caught then you take the sanction.

It's perfectly normal. In our school selected year year 6 Children go to the younger children's classes to make sure they are behaving. If teachers monitored wet play then they'd never get to eat or wee or have coffee. You think that is fair or humane?

This one is not particularly good

Again, I'd love to know how you are judging this teacher and what makes you qualified.

Anyway, on the topic of the thread, it's hard to say if the punishment was harsh without knowing what it was, without knowing the cohort of children and without knowing the break/lunch behaviour policy.

The supervision was fairly typical, and I can tell you that I've never worked in a school where that behaviour would be tolerated. I can't say whether the punishment was typical or not, because you haven't said what it was.

He's 8-9, he knows he shouldn't have been doing it and if you believe otherwise you're daft as a brush.

The reception age children can play quietly during wet play so I would expect a child in Yr 4 to know what sort of behaviour is expected of him too. As it is, lunchtime supervisors are in short supply, often looking after 2 classes on their own and during wet play, they patrol instead of being with one class all the time. Maybe if more people would sign up to be lunchtime supervisors...

I think your DS was probably unfortunate in that he got caught, but he did.

For the record, wet play is my idea of hell, they're full of unspent energy, and usually very very loud too.

Sooz, judging teacher on how well they listen, how respectful they are in communicating, how genuine their concern for kids is, and how they use punishment.

I admire your tenacity, given that pretty much everyone has said YABU but you're still utterly determined that you're not.

Has it occurred to you that some people might quite like this teacher because he doesn't let rowdy little gits chuck themselves round the classroom while everyone else is getting on with what they're supposed to be doing?

Okay, so you're judging how they present themselves to you (you can't know how genuine they are nor how they use punishment except with your child), which isn't anything to do with their teaching. So you meant to say "other or better communicators", not "teachers". Thanks for clarifying.

Lol. I love how my generally v well behaved child becomes a little git, and a joking jostle becomes 'chucking themselves around the classroom'. That's what makes it quite easy to be tenacious!

No, I meant how they communicate with my child. I don't care how they communicate with me, although it would have been nice if the teacher had mentioned it at pick up.

That's fine, you still meant "teachers who communicate better" rather than "teachers who teach better" as you're judging their communication skills not their teaching. It's like moaning about a doctor's medical skills when you're actually moaning about their bedside manner. I'm glad you're not judging their teaching.

I would be more concerned if my child had reached 8yrs old and genuinely didn't know that isn't an acceptable way to behave in a crowded classroom.

When dd was in reception her and another dc got told off for playing a similar silly game. And whilst at 4yrs old it's understandable they get carried away and forget, at no point was anyone pretending both dc genuinely thought it was allowed.

However if your dc shouldn't have to behave unless supervised, I'm sure the school would be happy for you to volunteer every lunchtime.

When ds1 was at school a game of ',pile ons' resulted in the air ambulance being called for suspected spinal damage.

I would think communication is a lot to do with being a good teacher. Also knowing when and how to discipline. And finally, how to listen. Being a good teacher is about more than imparting knowledge, although of course communication is quite crucial to that.

Yes, I'm a teacher so I have lots of experience of different teachers communicating in different ways. I assumed you were judging how the teacher communicates with you and your child when you see them. I didn't realise one can judge a teacher's communication during the school day without having seen/heard it for oneself. Communicating the teaching is different to communicating about inappropriate behaviour or with parents; I still don't think you can say the teacher isn't very good at teaching.

As for the discipline, you can't possibly know how and when the teacher disciplines every instance they do, so you can't judge that either.

So you can't say if they are a good teacher (as in their teaching) or not.

Do you have kids at school, Sooz? I bet you judge their teachers. My teacher friends are the worst (OR best, depending on how you look at it!).

Op your child was misbehaving and has been punished. The fact that you are arguing it is unfair and minimising it (a ‘jostle’ ending up with one child on top of the other???) is likely the reason he thinks he can get away with that kind of behaviour.
You can blame it the teacher or the completely standard level of supervision if you like but if your child behaves in that way again he will be punished again so it might be a better idea to concentrate on teaching your child the importance of behaving sensibly whether they are being watched or not so they don’t need a toddler level of supervision in order to behave appropriately.

If your son is upset about it, try and change how he thinks about it. Dd came home upset in year 1 as she was well behaved but someone was talking to her in assembly and her and the other girl had to stay in at lunch and write an apology letter. I think she could just about write at that age but probably not very well.
I just said "Don't worry the teachers that know you will know you are well behaved and won't think you are naughty. It'll be forgotten about etc" It did make her feel much better. She's now in year 6 and it didn't irreparably damage her reputation. She's considered very sensible. Sometimes i think the upset is more that they will now be viewed as naughty than the actual punishment!

I would think communication is a lot to do with being a good teacher. Also knowing when and how to discipline. And finally, how to listen. Being a good teacher is about more than imparting knowledge, although of course communication is quite crucial to that
And part of being a good teacher is dealing with situations when children old enough to know better choose to misbehave.

But hey. It's not their fault. They should only be expected to behave when someone explicitly has their eye on them.

Don't worry the teachers that know you will know you are well behaved and won't think you are naughty. It'll be forgotten about etc"
This ^^
Even good kids make mistakes, can act up a little, get into trouble for something. It's just part of being a kid.
No teacher seriously looks at an otherwise well behaved child and thinks 'that's it Timmy. You used to be a good boy but now you pushed in the lunch queue, you're on my naughty list'.
It's 'timmy shouldn't have done X. Timmy here's the sanction. Don't do it again' (walks off knowinh Timmy is lovely and won't do it again)

OP: AIBU?

MN: Yes.

OP: No I'm not.

Have you ever seen how much there is to be done at lunchtimes OP? There was probably one member of staff supervising 2 or 3 classrooms so the other teacher could go and do photocopying, fill in paperwork, phone parents and the hundred other things they try to fit into that hour, if they were really lucky they may have had time to wee at some point too.

It's not ideal but schools just don't have enough staff

It's becoming impossible to put in consequences for behaviour because of parents like you. It's very difficult to make the right decision when parents are immediately on the phone complaining or wanting a detailed explanation. They also complain if they perceive a lack of consequence for another child (like it's any of their concern). You blame lack of supervision and an overreaction but you've probably got 30% of the story from your 9 year old (who won't have a mature perspective on the situation). Perhaps the two boys had already been silly that day. Perhaps the teacher felt others were at risk of being hurt. Perhaps your child isn't telling you the truth. I appreciate you aren't calling up the school to complain but you are massively over thinking this. Your child was messing around. He's been punished. Move on. By questioning him about lunch time supervisors, you are teaching him that he isn't responsible for his own actions. You are teaching him to minimise his own behaviour by blaming others.