To not want to make a police report about a hate crime?

[eliphant]

An elderly woman with a walking stick at the bus stop said to me "there are enough of people like you here ", "go back to your country", "England isn't like it used to be", etc. It all ended in about 5 mins and my 2 children witnessed it. At no point did we feel threatened. I could dismiss it as an old lady on one of her crazy rants.

After reading this website www.report-it.org.uk/home
I thought okay I am helping the gov collect better stats which could help someone else, so I reported it there. I assumed that was all and the end of it.

Little did I know, a police officer from my local station phoned me up within the hour and urged me to make a formal report at the station.

I'm now in two minds about it as I start thinking would my children or I be forced to attend court meetings etc. if they decide to go all the way with this? He said as the buses all have cctv they could find this woman? Also I feel a bit uncertain if I want to bring this lady all the way to court. It was an uncomfortable situation and unpleasant but it would not be something that shocked us. In our area there have been similar things happening to some ethnic minorities for years, especially visible Muslims. Personally I'm inclined to let it go, but what do you say otherwise? Should I cancel the appointment? And can I?

I got confused with this: Jansen had appeared in court in Belfast on Tuesday where she was told she would face trial in April over charges connected to alleged hate speeches made in the city. The 31-year-old from south London denies the charges, which relate to a Britain First rally outside Belfast city hall last year. The Guardian, 10/01/18

Funny how you can go on trial for something that isn't illegal, @buster72. Did you fail your diversity course?

As far as England and Wales are concerned, expressions of hatred toward someone on account of that person's colour, race, disability, nationality (including citizenship), ethnic or national origin, religion, or sexual orientation is forbidden. Any communication which is threatening or abusive, and is intended to harass, alarm, or distress someone is forbidden. The major pieces of English and Welsh legislation are the Public Order Act 1986 as amended by the Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006.

Expressions of hatred and harassment due to racial and religious reasons (as well as other protected characteristics) are automatically hate crimes as far as the police are concerned and at any time that the person harassed or attacked considers them to be.

"In Scotland, the law recognises hate crimes as crimes motivated by prejudice based on:

race
religion
sexual orientation
transgender identity
disability

You do not need to be a member of a minority community to be a victim of hate crime. The law is quite clear that the identity of the victim is irrelevant as to whether something is a hate crime or not. The motivation of the perpetrator is the key factor in defining a hate crime.

Hate Crimes can take a number of forms, including, but not limited to:

physical assault
damage to property e.g. graffiti, arson, vandalism
fly tipping or dumping rubbish at someone’s door
putting dangerous materials through a letterbox
intimidating or threatening behaviour including obscene calls or gestures
deliberate dog fouling
offensive literature such as letters, leaflets, posters
verbal abuse or insults including name-calling
online bullying and abuse
emotional, psychological and financial abuse including threats, blackmail and extortion
murder"
(from www.hatecrimescotland.org/what-is-hate-crime/)

paws, I don’t think those events are the ones Fransen was jailed for. The ones she is in jail for now were ones in Ramsgate where she harassed people at the addresses of some Muslim men convicted of rape. The thing was, the people in those addresses included children and a pregnant woman who were entirely innocent of any crime.

I went down to the station to make a statement today. The officer told me that they have to take action about these things, but he also said in all honesty, it would be very difficult to identify and track the woman down through cctv alone unless she is already a known repeat offender. It would make the case so much easier if the identity of the woman was easier to track down, like if I could pinpoint who exactly she was. No wonder one of my friends' neighbours got police round her door cautioning against hate speech to another neighbour. I have other friends who tried reporting incidents like these via telephone when they were the victims of hate speech and the police just wouldn't do anything about it. They were surprised I even got so far as have a police officer call me back about it. Not sure if online reporting gets more attention or if the police have simply improved in their responsiveness to such issues around here.

Could they not track her down via the bus company? Presumably she will be using her free pass which would register when she boarded? If they can get the CCTV surely they could get the card info? Unless the info just says a freedom pass was used, but not which one.

Fingers crossed they catch her OP.

Report it. Shit like that needs stamping out.

I've actually been to court for a hate crime (( disability )) and my son who was the target was oblivious.

But the next person the guy targeted might have been alone, or more vulnerable and pushed to the edge. I reported it for every other disabled person put there. Not just my son.

I'm Irish. Britain was not 'much better' back in the old days. A certain type have always been picking on people.

Can I tell you my little story OP?

Daily mail are shite

A few years ago now (3 maybe). I (white woman) was going to a football match with my son (mixed race, 10yo). It was a championship team, quite a large one - they get like 20,000 supporters attending the matches weekly.

When I parked and started to walk toward the stadium I had to walk past a group of home team supporters stood around in a group swigging from cans of beer. They started singing "show us your tits! Show us your tits!" I felt a little intimidated but my main concern was that I was with my DS and didn't want him to notice so kept chattering away to him.

Then it got racial... having noticed the skin colour of my son the song changed to "stick to your own, stick to your own, don't shag N'words, stick to your own" repeated.

My GOODNESS. I WISH WISH WISH I had reported it. It still bothers me to this day.
However, here's the twist to this story - The "N'word" I was "shagging" just so happened to be the captain of their bloody football team.

Anyhoo, moral of my story is that you should go through with it. Show your children that it's ok to stand up for yourself and make a stand against racism whether that's against a group of louts or a granny. It's never acceptable. I didn't but I wish I did!!

Jeez it's so depressing that you are used to this sort of thing. I'm glad it's been taken seriously; it's outrageous and extremely offensive.

I bloody well hope they can track her down. You’ve done all you can now which is all anyone can do. I’m sorry you’ve been on the receiving end of such offensive bile.

I think it has been pointed out but Jansen was jailed for harassment. Which this incident is not but if repeated may well be.
The remarks are odious and nasty and indeed racist
But would fall short of the charging requirements for the public order act.
Having a racist opinion or expressing opinions on immigration is not illegal. Otherwise many politicians would be in the dock.
As this has been reported already then any statistics have been gathered but on this incident alone I doubt prosecution would be in the public interest.

Eltonjohnssyrup I asked about tracking her down through her bus pass, and was told all that shows up when she scans it is a barcode, not her name.

I was contacted today by a guy who is working on this. He said she matches the descript of someone who did something similar last Nov. He will attempt to track her down by cctv. He said though that although it is unlikely she will be taken to court, they could speak to her and even get her to apologise to me. I said I personally didn't need an apology from her but he can do what he thought was best to address this type of behaviour.

Eliphant, that should still be reaceble. There'll be a link to her address at least

Buster

Which part of "I got confused with this", "expressions of hatred", and "verbal abuse or insults including name-calling" are so difficult to understand in my previous post?

All those things including verbal abuse and harassment come under hate crime.

Oh, and politicians in the UK can most certainly be taken to court for it, were it said without parliamentary privilege. You will note that they carefully refrain from saying anything directly regarding race, religion, gender identity etc that can be prosecuted. Fransen has most certainly fallen foul of the law in this, which is why she is to be tried in Northern Ireland next month. Being deputy leader of a wannabe political party doesn't excuse her.

Or are you one of those who doesn't understand that laws in the UK are different from US TV shows? 🤣

I would go ahead with it, who knows how many other people she's done that to.

I do think they would have trouble getting a conviction but maybe just having police turn up to interview her would teach her to keep her nasty mouth shut.

The officer dealing with it seems to agree it is unlikely to get to court.....
Which is what I said.
If you can identify the act and section that has been contravenes I'll take it.

I would, what a nasty and spiteful lady. Just because she is an old lady, and set in her ways, does not give her the right to treat people like that. She did that right in front of children as well. How disgusting! Yes your children have to know that you will not stand for that and do something about it.

I would not want an apology from her, but I would want her dealt with appropriately. She has done this before, she needs to realise that this kind of behaviour is not acceptable now, she is not living in the 1950s anymore.