To be outraged at HMRC

[endofthelinefinally]

They have sent a £100 fine to my dead son for not filing his tax return for 2017.
It is addressed to Mr ......Dec'd.
I sent them the death certificate 18 months ago. He died in 2016.
They know he is dead, hence addressing it to dec'd.
I am shocked.

That is disgusting, I'm so sorry, words literally fail me.

I would highlight it with your MP as I'm sure if this got through the loop more did.

It’s not done sensitively at all is it. I’m so sorry for your loss. It’s done this way because it all gets deducted from his Estate and it’s computer generated. Horrid for you to receive though.

Sorry what I mean it’s the recorders are updated at hmrc and so for dealing with the estate, it’s been acknowledged that he has died.

Oh dear that's terrible. Sounds like a system glitch and somebody not looking properly before sending it out.
Nevertheless, unacceptable. Sorry for your loss.

I’m so sorry for your loss, that is utterly unacceptable, I agree you should let your MP know

That's horrendous.

I am so, so sorry. No one deserves that kind of nastiness.

daisy I don’t think there is a loop as such. Unfortunately the letter is correctly addressed for the purposes of his Estate. It’s unfortunate that it’s OP dealing with it but it’s for the purposes of tying up financial affairs.

It does always feel insensitive though, I agree.

I suppose it's a fair point that a tax return may still be required from someone who has died. As HMRC don't know who is dealing with the estate, I suppose they have to address the letter to the person who has died, as then (like other bills that still need paying) it should end up whoever is doing that job.

They "mistakenly" billed a swathe of miners as well. It seems noone at HMRC has more competence than a simian typing pool for dealing with taxes.

It was addressed to DH as representative of...
How would he have earned anything in 2017 if he died halfway through 2016?
How long after you die are you expected to pay income tax?
I am honestly baffled.

firesuit you explained what I was trying to so much better.

Unfortunately it’s nothing an MP can do anything about.

That’s why then the ‘representative of’. Because your DH is noted as the person dealing with affairs/the Estate. I guess because it could take a couple of years to be sure there’s nothing else accountable for.

The little bit of money in his account went towards his funeral.
How do they expect him to pay the fine? Or fill in a tax return?
I am so upset.

Surely somebody could have warned us that this might happen back in 2016 when we sent the death certificate. Nothing was sent in 2017.

His 2017 tax return will have covered the period roughly April 2016 to March 2017, so he could have had earnings in that period? There would be a final tax return due for the 2017 tax year to be filed by 31 Jan this year.

So sorry it's come so insensitively and out of the blue for you. xx

I’m not surprised OP. Does your husband (because he is personal representative) feel he could cope with calling them? Or if not, writing to them? I know it feels unfair to have to engage with them but it’s probably the most straight forward way of resolving it.

I think it’s very much a processing system OP. There wouldn’t have been an individual assigned for his affairs as such. Very much dealt with on a department basis I.e once x is dealt with, y gets dealt with by another department with hmrc.

DH is going to ring them.
He didn't have any earnings. He was ill and not working.
They better not expect us to pay a fine. I had no idea we were supposed to fill in a tax return on his behalf.
I am sure most people dont know this.
Perhaps they should send a letter out on receipt of the death certificate so that bereaved fsmilies don't get a horrible shock 28 months later.

Families. 18 months.

If there is no tax due, you won't have to pay a fine. Even if there is tax due, I would hope they would show a little compassion.

Sorry you have had to go through this.

They sent me a fine but I responded and it was cancelled. Hard for you but just write and let them know. I actually had to fill in the tax return before I could dispute the fine but I would hope circumstances would be different in this case.

It's an automated letter generated by the computer system. They don't have a person checking the letters before they get sent out. They'll sort it out when your DH rings them, it won't be a problem. It's crappy but unless they employ lots more people (which costs money) there's no way round it.

If he had no earnings and there's no tax due they should waive the fine if you explain the circumstances.

They definitely will NOT fine you if he was not earning. But they cannot close their files until they have had formal confirmation for the last of the tax periods. We had this with MIL. When we rang the man we spoke to was very nice, explained everything very clearly and apologised for the upset the letter had caused.

Deep breath, one phone call and maybe a letter and they will stop.

"If there is no tax due, you won't have to pay a fine."

This used to be the rule, but not any more. They will keep sending returns for the estate until you finalise the deceased's tax affairs - you can send a simple letter saying there was no income received after x date and the estate had no assets or no income-producing assets so the tax position should now be final. They should acknowledge this, then it's all done and dusted. Many deceased estates are open for several years and income (e.g. from property or investments) is received by the estate that needs to be accounted for by the personal representatives until such time as the assets have all been distributed and the estate wound up.
On a practical note, if you appeal the fine then they will almost certainly just cancel it as the team that used to deal with appeals of fixed penalties has been disbanded and there is no longer anyone available to deal with them.