To tell off twats on the tube with red beret

[AmiU]

I was on the jubilee line with DH, DD5 and DS2. A group of men (around middle aged) quite drunk, were playing a 'game' where one would place a dirty looking red beret on a passengers head, then all the others would jump/ dance around chanting 'red bereeeeet, the red bereeeeet'.

It was a bit annoying but I don't have anything against people just having fun. This is where it crossed the line for me: a woman was sitting alone. Sge asked them, politely, to be quieter. The leader twat tried to put the red beret on her, and she handed it back and said 'no'. After this, in my opinion their turned nasty, DH thinks I'm overthinking. The leader twat kept trying to force the beret back on the woman, saying really rude things (imo) like 'look at her, you know she wants it', 'she loves it really' or ' go on love, don't fight it just take it'. She was red with anger/embarrassment.

So when they danced over to put the red beret on DS2's head, I snapped and handed it straight back, saying loudly 'take your filthy hat and stop embarassing yourselves'. I'm normally non-confrontational to a fault but I was livid! DH thinks IABU.

It's a really tricky situation though; better a woman feeling intimidated than someone (man or woman) beaten up I think. You have to make a judgement call on the chances of it escalating. Sometimes playing along and appealing to their better nature is the best way to diffuse a situation.

I've been on a packed train with DH and the kids and a crowd of drunken football supporters. DH turned on the charm and they ended up insisting we took the free seats when some others got off and self policing their language "in front of the lady and the kiddies."

Well OP that IS a bit of a drip feed, because I can understand your DH's reluctance more now, but my DH's appearance also attracts attention (not in a good way). I still think he would have said something; there's no way he would have let anyone near our toddler DDs like that - they went too far.

Those guys are cunts! YANBU!

but I think a group of men ganging up and speaking to a lone woman like that is disgusting, there's a clear double meaning which makes it really intimidating

Yes, it absolutely is.

I have been on the receiving end of this type of behaviour before - it's awful. I ignore, and sit there like a stone (and going red, like this woman) - but I would always welcome intervention.

I do understand anyone not intervening - it's that awful thing when you want to say something, but just don't know what's going to kick off.

Good for you OP 👊👊👊

Proud of you ! Good work

Whatever were they playing at this red beret lark?.

Bunch of pissheads!

YWNBU. Their behaviour was offensive and intimidating.

Not sure why you dh can't see that any female (and probably most males) alone on public transport would feel intimidated by a group of drunk men.

I don't blame your husband for not intervening but drunk men saying "'look at her, you know she wants it'" is massively intimidating.

Jubilee line - they were probably at the football. Pretty toxic atmosphere at the game today so maybe they carried it home with them.

I’d have lobbed the beret out the doors at the next stop.

If your husband had intervened he was at serious risk of being beaten up. Of course he tried to avoid escalating the situation. It is sexist to expect men to expose themselves to physical danger by leaping to the defence of women in volatile situations. Often, these groups of men deliberately target women in order to provoke a reaction from their boyfriends/husbands to give them an excuse to beat the shit out of him.

The sensible response in these situations is to get the train staff to deal with it, using the emergency cord if it's seriously getting out of hand. Why should your husband be expected to take on a group of lairy drunks just because he has a penis and you and the other woman don't?

Typical Para behaviour i'm afraid. Reunion perhaps?

NBUR at all, a swift knee in the nuts would have sorted it

Did your DH really just sit there whilst a group of drunk men intimidated a single woman - and then his wife and toddler?

This ^^

My DH is the most placid, shy and easy going man you'll ever meet. He's reached the age of 50 and only ever had one fight (aged 14) but there is no way he would have looked on without getting involved.

Let alone have the audacity to think I was being unreasonable for sticking up for our children.

I'm not sure I could get passed that to be honest.

And (for me anyway) it's not the fact he didn't get involved

It's the fact he thought you were unreasonable for taking charge and standing up for your/his child.

Sounds like the Bystander Effect. Everyone hopes someone else will step in.

I agree with both of you. I'm usually the one to stand up to injustice and I probably couldn't have stopped myself saying more. That said, as a POC, I have been in situations where I felt racial tensions would have led to a fight and said nothing.

I was once there when a Sikh man in the cinema asked a little boy if he could sit down and not keep running around, making noise. His own mum had physically distanced herself from her son by sitting across the auditorium but could be heard by everyone complaining to her friend how her kid was a "little shit" and a "twat". The man was perfectly nice about something we all wanted to say but this woman gave that poor Sikh man abuse he didn't deserve and the only reason it didn't get racist (because she really did teeter on the edge of it) was because security was called in but that didn't stop her causing a scene at a child's film with children watching. I think with family with you, it's sometimes best to say nothing but totally get your points. I'm just appalled no one else said anything about that behaviour.

I don't think your husband should be expected to take them on, given that they clearly sound like they were acting with mob mentality. He could have put you all at risk, he wasn't likely to be in a winning situation. It probably worried him that you became involved as it could have led to him and and you all being at risk. The risk to the woman didn't escalate to violence, if it was heading further that way your husband may still have waited for others to intervene as clearly he was feeling vulnerable himself.
When I was younger I always felt safer with girlfriends rather than my husband on a night out, as the mob mentality will look for an easy male target but stop short of attacking a lone female on public transport, despite how awful she must have felt.
I wish these people did not exist.

Unless your family were the only other people on the carriage you shouldn't have been the only people who should have stepped in and helped the woman, what was everyone else doing?

I think your DH was scared and that's why he didn't intervene. I don't blame him at all especially given what you have said about your ethnicity.
The ones bu are the thugs on the train.

I think your oh done what the vast majority of people would do by not saying anything. I was on a very packed bus when a drunken man started verbally abusing me (much much worse than in the op) and not one person said anything and it went on for my entire bus journey. So people don't generally step in IMO so I don't think he should be made to feel bad. But anyway back to the point yanbu

thislittlekitty I'm so sorry. I feel so silly I took that long to say anything. I will definitely speak up quicker in the future.

The carriage was full and no one else said a thing!

What bizarre behaviour (them not you)

If I was on my own, I would have felt incredibly intimidated if the men tried to do this to me.

Would have appreciated someone speaking up for me as no way could I have done it myself.

However I know my Dh would have been one to tell them to pack it in and leave the poor women alone.