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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To find these figures worrying

7 replies

carryondoctor · 09/03/2018 10:59

news.sky.com/story/sky-views-osborne-played-right-into-mcdonnells-hands-11281872

Such a large % of the tax take is paid by such a tiny number of people. And so many people are not paying at all (young and old, mostly - understandable but the latter is a growing category). It's so finely balanced in a post-brexit / spectre of corbyn & McDonnell maths world, really we wouldn't need many of these people to leave and there'd be a huge hole.

When we have threads on here, there are always plenty who rush on to sneer that they would happily pay a little more, and that it is rubbish to think the top earners would move if the tax rates became punitive or the economy failed. But these figures show that really it wouldn't take very many to go before the deficit was noticed.

AIBU to think that corbyn and McDonnell really need a new calculator and to be honest rather than using silly phrases like, "we're just asking those who can to give a little more" (and george Osborne needs... well, I'm open to suggestions for the lizard boy!)?

OP posts:
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LifeBeginsAtGin · 09/03/2018 11:41

The trouble with Labour supporters is they always shout 'tax the rich', what they forget that in a Labour government THEY will be the rich.

Labour will tax the arse off everyone, the truely wealthy will move their money around/abroad (leagally) so it will be the rest of us middle earners, JAM's who will pay for their ideology.

carryondoctor · 09/03/2018 11:44

With a corbyn/McDonnell government, nobody would be rich!

(Apart from possibly the manufacturers of hair shirts)

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HollyBayTree · 09/03/2018 11:47

People don’t understand pensions at all. We don’t pay into our own personal state pension pot. This is a myth. All those people who shout ‘I paid in, its mine’ , well yes you paid in BUT the day the welfare state was created, its started paying out. So people working today pay for todays pensioners, I effectively paid for my parents retirement, they paid for the previous generation and my children will pay for me.

Except there are now too many old people and too few youngsters. The problem is already evident and it will get worse.

On the other hand, I can’t immediately link to it, only 18% of the country revenue is from personal taxation, the rest is from corporate, VAT, fines, levies, import tax and so forth. So less than 1/5th of tax is from ‘people’. Im sure they can find something else to tax to make up the deficit.

Babycham1979 · 09/03/2018 12:46

OP, these figures are terrifying, but not for the reason you think. Firstly, they show that our economy is fucked. The income tax system is overly complex and utterly unfair. Not only that, but it's extremely precarious. The absolute mess the Government is making of Brexit means that many high-earners may soon decide to leave the Country, or if they don't, the companies that employ them will do so. It just so happens that, thanks for the dishonesty of successive governments, income tax only comprises a minority over the overall tax-take. However, we can't afford to lose even that.

I'm more troubled by the fact that over half the population pay no income tax. This is utterly unsustainable and iniquitous, and that's even before you even count total net contributions (tax paid in, minus services and benefits taken out).

I'm a high-earner and a lefty, and I'm one of those people you accuse of 'sneering' (are you sure that's what you mean?) that they'd pay more tax. I believe in a TRULY progressive tax system. That would mean the abolition of in-work benefits, child benefit etc, but the lifting of low earners out of the tax system. It would also mean closing the loopholes for those at the very top, who pay less tax proportionally than their cleaners do.

Maybe the only pragmatic answer is a flat tax, with a high starting threshold and the abolition of in-work benefits. The thing is, the Government would never implement this because it would be too transparent. It would all but eliminate tax 'avoidance' and make tax evasion extremely difficult and people would see how much they're really paying.

Our State already spend less as a proportion of GDP than almost every other developed nation (and that's including health; most others don't). Where do you suggest either the extra money, or the extra cuts in spending, come from?

BadLad · 09/03/2018 13:22

Our State already spend less as a proportion of GDP than almost every other developed nation

This sounds interesting. Do you have a source for that?

Babycham1979 · 09/03/2018 16:32

Here you go (and remember, very little healthcare expenditure in the US, Aus etc figures);

www.data.oecd.org/gga/general-government-spending.htm

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