Jaycee - TRA's mostly but it seems to be filtering out to others. I'm also struggling to see how it makes sense.
But if you have been aware of the the talks by A Woman's Place, for example, and the protests they have been subjected to, even just wanting to discuss what it is to be a woman and what it might mean to widen the definition of 'woman' is transphobic, something only done by TERFs, and has resulted in violence against women with a sixty year old being punched. She identified a much younger pre-op trans woman as her attacker. And a trans activist group condoned this. Punching TERFs is the same as punching Nazis. We must be radically and transformatively violent. Violence against TERFs is always self defence. There was an incident this evening which will be hatefully and wrongly depicted by TERFs as male violence. When TERFs attack we fight back. Any idea where this meeting is happening because I want to fuck some TERFs up.
Women who speak out on any women's issue (and I do this often) are told either "but what about men" or "other women are worse off".
If you need a personal example, a man whose girlfriend had a termination called me a feminazi and a bigot because I had access to a bereavement midwife when my son was stillborn and my daughter died neonatally.
He didn't care that in a hospital that sees thousands of pregnant women each year, they have just the one midwife trained to help women like me.
He didn't care that she was meant to provide physical and emotional care but was so overstretched she could barely see me for fifteen minutes, and that was taken up with urgent physical care. The emotional care was covered by a couple of leaflets she left with us because she just didn't have time.
He didn't care that my woman's body was infected, that I had almost died because of an infection in my placenta, that pregnancy for me is life-threatening, that I was damaged by it and by my losses, putting future pregnancies at risk.
And he didn't care that we were basically left to just get on with it all with little support because that poor woman just couldn't physically stretch herself any further. She did what she could but that was very little due to limited time and funds.
He cared that he, as a man whose girlfriend aborted their baby, didn't get a bereavement midwife of his own.
And when I told him that she provided mostly physical care because she just didn't have the time to sit and counsel me emotionally, physical care which he did not need because he was a man, he accused me of using the 'grow a womb' argument and called me a bigoted feminazi cunt and an exclusionary misandrist.
So he's one from personal experience, although he didn't get as far as calling me transphobic for mentioning the difference between mens bodies and women bodies and the needs that stem from those differences.
I've looked at Leah Jorgensen's interview briefly and I can't see that she would be challenged. Did she say that she had been?
I have a friend and a relative with PCOS, and they both do have some excess hair, although not to the degree that Leah Jorgensen does. I think most women are aware of how certain conditions can increase body hair and I think they would realise this was the case with Leah. She might get a second look, but I don't think she'd be challenged after that.
Since she was interviewed on This Morning, if she, Holly, and Phillip all walked into the Ladies toilets together, if anybody was challenged at all I would expect it to be Phillip.
Women who refer to primary and secondary sex organs are being told that we are excluding trans people and women who have had hysterectomies or suffered FGM.
People are referring to 'vagina feminism', Jack Monroe has been mentioned on this thread and I believe she was very vocal about vagina feminism excluding trans people and her mum, although I believe there was some confusion in her tweets.
Another Munroe (Bergdorf) has been claiming pussy hats are transphobic and racist because they only symbolise white women's bodies and stated that feminists are reducing women to their sex organs. Bergdorf states that women are more than their sex organs and their ability to bear children, which is entirely correct, but it's still a big part of who and what we are and what we experience.
It's not reducing women to anything to talk about women's bodies and the issues that come as a result of having one. If a woman has had a hysterectomy or suffered FGM, it doesn't make her less of a woman but it happened to her because she is one.
There's a thread on here about not challenging people in bathrooms. The closed I've come to challenging anybody was when a man in his sixties (trousers, shirt and tie, moustache) walked into the ladies toilets (through two doors with ladies toilet symbols on them and one of them under a big sign that said Ladies Toilet on it) and then just stood and stared until the three women in there had all registered his presence, which we didn't do immediately but something about the way he was waiting drew attention in the end.
He then said very loudly "Isn't this the gents?" and waited for an answer. Neither of the other women spoke so I said no and he looked me up and down twice, quite slowly and appraisingly, and then walked back out.
He spoke first but I would have asked him what he was doing is he had continued to stand there.
And then there's Lily Madigan (with the Facebook group that has a cover photo reading "Down With CIS" and the secret list of Labour women) saying on that "If you say you're a man I'll believe you but you can't just say you're black because that's more complicated biology and gender is internal while skin colour is external presentation."
Lily's job was meant to encourage more women to join the party and succeed in it, but women are being expelled and driven away and according to one of the other people helping compile the secret list the aim of list is to get them kicked out of the party anyway.
On that radio interview Lily was asked if she would believe a man who said he was a woman, even if he had not transitioned in any way and was to all appearances still a man. Lily said yes, she would believe him just because he said so.
You must be aware of all of this.
And you're aware of the point I was making.
If these spaces are to be opened up because of Self-ID, and nobody is to be challenged, anybody can walk in and they won't have to say a word, let alone dress differently or change their body or appearance in any way at all.
And that applies to far more than just toilets and changing rooms.