Is this fair? Objective opinions sought..

[BreakfastLunchPasta]

Ick, I just wrote 3 really long paragraphs, then the page refreshed itself and I lost the lot 😒

I'll have to be brief..

Dd has Asperger's syndrome, refers to herself as having mild autism. She is 12.
A girl in her class called her retarded, witnessed by other children but not by a teacher. She didn't want me to report it, but I could see that it was affecting her more than she realised, suddenly not wanting to go to school after being very enthusiastic previously.
I reported it yesterday. School said they'd deal with it.
This afternoon, spoke to the principal who said she'd decided to give BOTH girls detention, because dd had retaliated by saying something awful back. She said dd could tell me herself.. I was imagining something with a lot of effs (knowing my dd 😳) and agreed to the detention.
So, dd is in trouble for calling the other girl a psychopath, with no swearing (I asked). I think that's fairly mild a retaliation?
Obviously, I'm quite cross that my child has been called retarded, and find it hard to be subjective about this.
Is it fair to punish the girls equally?

I think that’s fair. Both terms are insulting, how do you know that the other girl doesn’t have mental health issues and so would be equally affected?

No, I think I would punish the instigator here.

Why wouldn't the school tell you your DD called the other girl a psychopath?

That seems really strange. Are you sure that's all she called her?

No, I don't think it is fair AT ALL. The other girl, unprovoked, used an abusive term referring to another pupil's known SEN. Your daughter retaliated with a fairly generic insult.

If your daughter deserves detention under the school's behaviour policy, then the other girl should be receiving a stronger sanction.

Fair I think, both as bad as each other.

Fair. If one punches the other and she punched her back i’d expect the same. I know sometimes it doesn’t seem fair but that’s how I’d expect the school to deal with it

Sounds fair to me. Of course your daughter shouldn't have been called a retard but she also shouldn't have retaliated. It sounds like the school are trying to teach both girls a lesson that language like that is never acceptable. It's difficult to reinforce that rule if you start making exceptions of it is ok in x situation or of this person says y. Then it start getting complicated. It's better to keep rules simple and apply them to everyone.

I think that is unfair on your dd. I would phone school and ask for their version of what happened.
If your dd version is correct I would dispute the detention - your dd was being bullied if that remark was made to her with no provocation.

I had similar with my DS 12. He had the mickey taken out of him about being autistic, he retaliated and they both got detentions. I called the school and said I wasn’t particularly happy but I’d like the class spoken to in general about how it’s not acceptable, he can’t help the way he was born. I agreed to the detention because I know my child and knew that a variety of swear words would have been used even though he said he didn’t. He doesn’t think before he speaks but I’m trying to instill in him that ASD isn’t an excuse to be nasty even when retaliating. However I do understand how hideously hard teaching our children can be about how the world works.

Actually, given what you said about your daughter swearing, I really would check with the teacher that she didn't call her a 'Fucking' psychopath.

Had this sort of shit with my ASD son (now 16) at similar age. Let it go.

You've been supportive, it doesn't sound like she's being bullied but rather a one off spiteful comment, and sadly it goes with the territory and has done for eons. Early teens is hard. Hopefully it will even out.

Thanks, I appreciate all of your views.
I asked dd again about the swearing, she still says no. I do believe her, she isn't trying to cover up and accepts her punishment. She realises that what she said hurt the other girl, too... I guess my gut reaction is to be protective of my own child!
I've done some restorative practices training myself, and can see where the school are coming from, and it's a good lesson for my dd to learn in the long run re not retaliating.

Yes - not bullying, a one-off incident.

I used to have no backbone for standing up for myself. I have a physical disability and a limp but in high school this was far more pronounced and I had to walk with a frame, add in geeky glasses, mousy hair, no makeup and the social skills of Sheldon Cooper and you get the picture. I was basically a walking target for bullies and frankly didn’t do myself any favours. School was absolute hell and they did nothing to stop the bullying. So the fact that your daughter was able to stand up for herself is a good thingb

Is the other girl feeling the same as yours is now about going to school, after the incident?

I agree with Helpmum's comment.

Clearly the girl herself told the school about your DD's response to her, and I don't think she should be given the satisfaction of seeing your DD serve a detention. I think that will only give her the impression that this was a fair fight and that her poor treatment of your DD was justified by hostility your DD showed after the fact. Children are not always clear about cause and effect, and I suspect the girl was feeling very sorry for herself despite her aggression.

I think the thrower of the first punch should always suffer greater consequences than the person who retaliates. I think schools should try very strenuously to deter that first punch.

In short, your DD is being treated unfairly, and the school are being played.

Rainboho must have meen inspired by the "mumsnet vs real life"
thread, for you hun.

OP, you're right, it's an unfair, lazy response. And wtf is with the "ask her yourself" mindgames?

whoops, *been

No thats not fair
Your dd is being punished for calling some one a name,
The other kid used a disabist insult,
No comparison
I would not allow my dd to be punished in that way

Detention for calling someone a psychopath in retaliation is possibly fairish. But calling someone with aspergers retarded is a lot worse and there should have been a greater punishment than just a detention.

I would ask head what more they are doing to educate children in how cruel they have been. Were written reports taken about what happened?

Rainboho must have meen inspired by the "mumsnet vs real life"
thread, biscuit for you hun.

Thanks for the biscuit hun @anneoneill but actually I was inspired by 20 years working in mental health services and so I see both terms as equally bad.

But excuse me for having an opinion. Hun.

It actually makes me quite sad that we are teaching children they must always suffer abuse quietly and without protest.

There are times when you need to stand up and defend yourself and what your daughter said in no way warranted the exact same punishment as the other girl got.

I agree though that psychopath (and the connotations of what that means) is just as bad. Just because the other person said it first does not mean your daughter should not face punishment as well. So yes your daughter punishment was fair.

But the other child should also be told that it is unacceptable as well

For a one-off incident where both parties used insults relating to complex mental 'issues', I think it seems pretty fair.

I assume (not you OP) that some people are simply too stupid to see beyond the fashion for seeing something as 'disablist' without understanding that both insults used by both children are remarkably similar.

If one is "just a name" then so is the other.