To be furious but a bit too cowardly to do anything about the boob eye-flick?

[OurAveline]

I should say I think I probably know the answer to this but I’m vaguely horrified by a) this person’s Behaviour and b) my reaction... Long story short I was in a 1-2-1 work meeting today. Other person is same level as seniority to me but in a different department. Meeting was a short catch up to see how we can help each other by cross referring projects that would result in additional sales into our respective clients. All very positive, all very win/win. No weird history. No weird power dynamics. Sat opposite work colleague for approx 30 mins and at least once every 30 seconds his eyes flicked down to my chest. I was wearing a blouse buttoned to an inch below my collar bone. Not even a hint of boob on show. I should have said “hey busters eye up”. Instead I sat there questioning whether the blouse was in actual fact inappropriate and whether I was sitting oddly to encourage the boob eye-flick. I’m enraged that he couldn’t NOT do it and even more enraged that I didn’t call him out on it.

I find eye contact difficult so have to look away. I probably do this too. Nothing sleazy I promise!

I get this from time to time so I just feign checking my buttons ... it gives a hint they you've twigged they're looking and you think perhaps you've come unbuttoned

I am very shy and can't hold eye contact for long so I sometimes let my eyes drift to the left or right a bit. This will make the person I'm talking to glance behind them to see what I'm looking at. I'm sure it looks very weird to other people, and I am working on it!

I would possibly keep looking at a man's tie or shirt if I was finding it hard to maintain eye contact for an extended period.

Maybe sit at 90° to each other next time? Less intimidating if that is a problem and more awkward to boob gaze possibly.

i have been interviewed by someone with a cleavage on display. i am a heterosexual woman but i could not drag my eyes away, it was not intentional

I'm autistic & sometimes I'll end up looking (without actually actively looking iyswim) at someone's chest (and yes, sod's law it'll be a woman so I then feel even more awkward). You can't always look at their ear because then it can end up looking like you're looking over their shoulder and they turn to look too.
Equally I'm gay and sometimes I'll inadvertently end up looking at a woman's cleavage if she's wearing something low-cut (not the case here though for OP) - I don't realise I'm doing it (until I've done it), it just happens. The same as if someone has a spot on their chin & you're drawn to stare at it.
But hey, it's a man so naturally he was being a lecherous perv and shouldn't get the benefit of the doubt

Why should she give him the benefit of the doubt? It made HER feel uncomfortable! Women don't always have to make sure everyone else is feeling ok you know. If he finds eye contact difficult he should direct his gaze elsewhere!

@pixel. But you are clearly aware you are doing this as you are writing about it here. Why not just train yourself to look elsewhere. I just can't see any scenario where you leaning in to hear better when lip reading fails means your eyes can only look at a woman's chest. Just look up or ahead. Because no matter how you dress it up you are looking, and it must be obvious because you've even been slapped for doing it.

Oh lord !! This reminds me of when I had to speak to the school swimming coach. He isn't particularly good looking but he had the body of a god. I desperately struggled to maintain eye contact & nearly managed to get through the conversation but, just at the end, my eyes dropped (involuntarily, I swear) down to his perfectly formed pecs. Then I blushed bright red - mortified doesn't even begin to cover it. Guess I am a dirty old woman after all!

A friend with an impressive embonpoint has a brilliant response. If someone is staring at her frontage, she leans in and murmurs "they're not going to speak, you know". Has put several Mr Titz Perverts in their place!!

Why should she give him the benefit of the doubt? It made HER feel uncomfortable!
Because she's assuming that he's letching when there are other just as logical reasons for it. I'm not saying she can't feel uncomfortable. I'm saying that assuming the worst just because it's a man is unreasonable and all too common on here. He probably doesn't realise he's doing it. She could have calmly brought it to his attention so that he was aware and could stop but she didn't. Instead she's ranting on here.

Nikephorus have you read the thread? Most women are assuming he's not leching. It's really beside the point. Some - many - men look at women's tits in a work setting to keep them in their place as sexual objects. They do. Most women will have experienced this.

If a man looks at your tits in a work setting that's what it feels like he's doing. What his real motives are are beside the point. She is entitled to consider her own feelings on the matter first before making up a whole load of reasons why this particular man might have better reasons.

It may be common 'on here' to automatically assume a man is in the wrong but in real life women have to bend backwards to make sure men are not misjudged.

Plus, I wouldn't call anyone 'Buster' unless I was Blousey from Bugsy

Yes thank you Mookatron, I have read the thread. I am aware that most women are assuming he's not leching. But the OP has come on here to rant instead of calmly mentioning it to him at the time. Aunty took the same view. And on Mumsnet generally there seems to be an assumption that if a man is involved in a situation then his actions are always deliberate.
Yes some men do look at women's breasts. Not most of them. And not to 'keep them in their place as sexual objects' - merely because their eyes are instinctively drawn towards them. It's an automatic reflex. Even women do it as a PP mentioned.
His real motives are not beside the point - they're absolutely key. If a man is deliberately staring & leering & commenting then that's completely different to a situation where a man accidentally glances or is struggling to maintain eye contact because he's autistic.

I expect you had a big gravy stain on your blouse. Unless of course your covered chest is soooo irresistible

You think she wouldn't notice a stain on her blouse... Perhaps he did find her covered chest to be soooo irresistible, that doesn't mean it's okay for him to keep looking.

OK, so you're sat at a desk?

So there is essentially a view from your naval to the top of your head.

What's on the desk in front of you? If I'm talking to someone I don't stare into their eyes for the whole time, if people do that to me I find it unsettling.

So I'll move my eyes away sometimes - I'll look at the desk, I'll look at my notebook, I'll look at your notebook, I'll look at your pass.

Are you just assuming that every glance that goes below your nose level is looking at your chest or was he definitely ogling your, not on display or ogleable, chest?

I've been transfixed by the tops worn by many women in England especially when I first moved here.

There are a couple of styles that are hugely popular and are so unflattering and ugly that I'm shocked women can't see how bad they look in them. If I were a man then some may have thought I was being a pervert rather than just being a perplexed woman who was probably at times staring a bit rudely.

Point is, while women are more likely to notice, men aren't immune from noticing bad fashion on women especially if they're bored in a meeting with nothing else to look at. He simply may have not liked your top.

Or he could be a perv...it's really hard to judge in this scenario tbh.

LeighaJ can you expand on those ugly styles? I would imagine most office staff are in fairly innocuous shirts/blouses.

@Snowy
Geez, talk about giving me an even bigger complex...!!
I can assure you that staring at women's breasts isn't my thing - honestly just because I have testicles and happen to be hard of hearing so lean in a little to hear I'm branded like some kind of perv!!
It's not nice not being able to hear but then it's not nice wearing hearing aids and been stared at, mocked, people talking like Wallace (& Grommit)
Maybe I'll just pack a bag and go live in the frigging mountains.

How about women get over themselves??
If the guy was a hunk you'd probably appreciate the attention - anything less and they're automatically branded a perv!!

Get over yourselves!

Oh dear, Pixel you've really shown yourself up with your last comment.

As I said, just learn to look elsewhere. You know you are doing it because people have confronted you and you are talking about it here. I am not accusing you of being a perv, those were your words. But whatever your intention you are doing it. So stop. Just look elsewhere. Is that too challenging for you?

I don't think any of us have the right to tell folk where to look...

People have the right to look where they please but equally people have a right to object if it makes them uncomfortable.

Yes but we can't police people's eyes. I think sometimes it's not a bad thing to develop a thick skin, and learn to pick your battles.

OMG I hate this. When I used to work in an off licence/convenience store,I lost count of the number of men who would aim their conversation at my chest,rather than my face. It wasn't helped by the quite tight fitting work T-shirts we had to wear,and the fact we had to wear a name badge pinned to our chest. I'd get blokes peering at my chest saying they were trying to read what my name was. And yes I am quite generously endowed in the boob department,so it ended up making me feel very self conscious.

If it were me, I’d probably not say anything this time but if it continues happening, you’ll have to raise it with someone. Gawd knows how/who.

I’m a bit like Slarty, I am v small of nork and I have occasionally met women who are the opposite and suddenly realised I’ve been gawping.