Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

in not paying cleaner due to snow

212 replies

dietingagainandagain · 05/03/2018 12:34

Not long had a cleaner so not sure what the done thing is. Also we are not loaded and this is definitely a luxury.

Anyway due to the snow the lady wasn't able to come out last week.
Should we pay anyway for the missed week?

I go through a company and pay them a proportion by bank transfer but leave most of the payment in cash for the actual lady who comes. There isn't any contract as such.

I think paying is the right thing to do but DH thinks we shouldn't. Who is right?

OP posts:
BoomBoomsCousin · 06/03/2018 18:18

In theory, assuming she's self-employed, her rates should be set to cover her sickness and other time off herself. So you shouldn't need to pay her. I wouldn't, for instance, pay a plumber who didn't turn up because of the weather. In practice, we know that that doesn't really apply to people in less skilled and low paid work because there's no way for them to demand the sort of rates that would cover them when things go wrong. So I would be more inclined to pay her anyway. Offering her a chance to make up the time (maybe she could come on another day when the snow's better or stay late next time and clean the appliances or something) would be a reasonable alternative too.

Ferret27 · 06/03/2018 18:21

I think you have to be sensible ... if you pay her for this no show then what about all the potential other reasons that may crop up ... .. in general large companies eg in retail etc make their PAYE staff take days like this as unpaid or you can use your holiday... I would understand you paying if you had a long relationship with your cleaner but you haven’t and your inexperience is showing ... it’s not about being nice it’s a business arrangement and you should be business like ... this doesn’t mean being rude or unkind .... just that you should do what several posters on here have said and ask her to do some extra hours if she wants to and then pay her ...

DrJo1 · 06/03/2018 18:28

Why not just reschedule her for a couple of hours? She has then cleaned and done any extra you might need and you can pay her what you would have paid her so her monthly payment is not reduced.

Smartiepants79 · 06/03/2018 18:28

I would maybe pay half if I liked her and she was reliable and did a good job. I pay my cleaner only when she comes. She is very good at her job but often doesn't turn up for multiple reasons.

Lizzie48 · 06/03/2018 18:39

It would depend on the relationship with the cleaner. My first cleaner used to fail to show sometimes, for no apparent reason, which used to really annoy me. But that wasn't the case with the other one and, as I said, she clearly lived hand to mouth and I wouldn't have wanted her to be out of pocket.

iMogster · 06/03/2018 18:47

She didn't travel in the snow and didn't do the work, so no pay. I would offer her some extra work this week, so she can earn a bit more.

Completely different to the cleaner silky mentioned, who wasn't cancelled and did make the journey in snow. She should have still been paid.

Booboo66 · 06/03/2018 18:47

You don’t have to, your house was still be available to be cleaned but she didn’t come. It’s different to a place of work closing and saying you can’t come in, however I’d probably pay her, it’s budgeted for and hopefully she’ll work doubly hard to make up

LizzyELane · 06/03/2018 18:48

Well having worked for the NHS where a snow day had to come out of annual leave, or the missed hours be made up, I would personally stick to that.

k2p2k2tog · 06/03/2018 18:49

Do you want to be a good employer

OP is not an employer. She is a client of a self-employed worker. There is a HUGE difference.

We have a cleaner every week, she is self-employed. If she doesn't come, I don't pay her. I don't pay her holiday pay, or sick pay, or offer her any of the other benefits of being "employed". It's just the same as getting a carpenter in to fit a shelf, or a plumber in to fix a tap. You are paying for the job on an ad-hoc basis.

I'm self employed too and don't get paid for work I haven't done.

Umakemefeellikedancing · 06/03/2018 18:55

I don't pay my cleaner if she doesn't come.

ButchyRestingFace · 06/03/2018 19:06

I didn't pay my driving instructor last week when he cancelled due to the snow.

Equally, I'm self employed and when two companies called to cancel my assignments with their clients last week on the day I was due to work, I didn't invoice for those jobs because all the public transport was off and there was no way I could have attended even if they hadn't cancelled first.

Bobbi73 · 06/03/2018 19:07

I couldn't work at all last week because of the snow and I didn't get paid but I can make it up this week. I'd be inclined to offer her some extra work so that she can make it up rather than be paid for nothing which would make me feel awkward

ChocolateWombat · 06/03/2018 19:21

I think either could be the right choice.

There are a number of jobs where you pay someone for completing a particular task and they are only paid when that happens. You are not their employer as such but someone who hires them to do a task for a small number of hours. Examples might be weekly such as gardeners, childminders, dog walkers, piano teachers etc.

These people get paid for the hours they work. There is no sick pay or holiday pay from you as a user of them.....it is up to them to add into their fees something to cover this stuff.

If they don't come to work to do their job because they are sick or because something else prevents them coming and doing it like weather, you don't have to pay them. They are not entitled to pay.

So for example, when school was closed and the piano teacher couldn't teach, they didn't get paid. When Gardner wasn't able to do his work because of snow, he won't have been paid.

It seems harsh, but these workers are not entitled to be paid for work not done, unlike employees who may find their work place shuts for the day.

What usually happens to make this a better outcome for cleaners, piano teachers, gardeners etc is that they and the people they work for try to arrange an alternative slot - so the work still gets done and they still get paid.

If it's not possible to arrange an alternative slot, if you use one of these workers it is up to you if you choose to pay them.....but they cannot expect it. You wouldn't pay a cleaner who didn't come due to illness or due to their car breaking down. You wouldn't pay the window cleaner who can't come because his van isn't working. You wouldn't pay a piano teacher who had to take a day off to look after a sick child.

If you - the person who hires them decides they can't come because it's inconvenient to you, then with enough notice it should be possible to re-range, but if you are cancelling them short notice, I think payment is then due.

Odd circumstances such as weather preventing work - something outside everyone's control are unusual - and something that the self employed person isn't covered for and has to work around. Most contractors or temporary hourly paid staff won't get paid if the weather prevents them getting in. An employer might choose to pay them for an odd day - that's fine.....but you also have to be aware of setting a precedent.

Best, as always to clarify exactly when you will and won't pay with these kinds of work. The general rule is that payment is due if work is carried out or if the person who hires them cancels with short notice - short notice being defined.

Petrify · 06/03/2018 19:21

Is she self employed?

clarkl2 · 06/03/2018 19:24

I would pay

Spam88 · 06/03/2018 19:29

Sure it would be a nice thing to do to pay her, but I wouldn't. I wouldn't be paid if I couldn't get into work (NHS) and I think that's the case for most people?

cheval · 06/03/2018 19:32

I won’t be paying gardener for missing visit to me due to snow. But he quite often doesn’t turn up when I’m expecting him. And charges way more than a cleaner gets.

Chewbecca · 06/03/2018 19:52

I only pay my cleaner when she comes, I pay by the hour worked, no more, no less.

I never cancel however, I don't think it is fair to, and would probably pay if I did cancel, on the basis she was available and booked to work.

Teeniemiff · 06/03/2018 21:11

I didn’t pay ours, but we don’t have her weekly we tend to go fortnightly. So she will be coming this week instead (I will pay her this week). This week isn’t a scheduled clean so I’m not paying any extra than I would have. She is doing one clean & being paid for 1.
If we had her every week and wasn’t really the option of doing another day instead, then I would most likely just pay her.

SherbrookeFosterer · 06/03/2018 21:14

Pay up.

A good cleaner is worth her weight in gold.

Passenger42 · 06/03/2018 22:26

If she is agency staff then it's not your responsibility to pay her it's there's. If she is employed directly by you on a casual as and when required basis then again no pay if no work carried out. If she is self employed then you don't pay and she might have some insurance cover, but probably not.

If she asks to work a double shift to make up for lost earnings then you might want to agree to help her out.

shabbyshibby · 06/03/2018 22:48

If I couldn't make it in to work for whatever reason I wouldn't get paid

dollydee · 07/03/2018 02:50

OP - do you still have to pay the company their weekly £19 admin fee for last week?

Bettyfood · 07/03/2018 03:04

People don't usually in any way "employ" their cleaner any more than they "employ" their plumber, solicitor, hairdresser etc. You pay them, or an agency as a business for their services. You don't pay their tax national insurance, nor do you provide a pension. The cleaner is either 1) employed themselves by an agency, in which case the agency terms and conditions apply to the situation 2) They run their own business as a sole trader or otherwise.

In the OP's situation, she could offer money out of goodwill, but there is no more legal obligation to pay the cleaner when she doesn't turn up (unless she has signed a contract which says otherwise) than there is to pay the hairdresser if she cancels my hair appointment.

BunsyGirl · 07/03/2018 04:24

Could she genuinely not get to you? My cleaner cancelled twice basically because she didn’t like driving in the snow. I got to work every day with no problems whatsoever. If I hadn’t turned up at work, I would have had to take a day’s holiday or unpaid leave. No way am I paying my cleaner.