To wonder why so many people don't carry any cash on them?

[InHibernationTilISummer]

Excluding people who are skint and the Queen, obviously.

I've had so many examples of this in the last few weeks:

• Colleague who came into the work in the bad weather. Lots of delays and problems on the bus route they normally get so wanted to get the train instead but had no money for a ticket because they had come in with their season bus pass and lunch and hadn't expected to be spending any money.
• Friend turning up for exercise class but hasn't realised that the price has gone up 50p since she last came - and she only brought the exact money she thought she would need.
• Another friend dropping older child off at sport class finds that there's a fair going on at the sports centre with stalls and activities that her younger child (who was with her) would have enjoyed. Complains that she wishes she had known about it in advance as she would have taken some money out with her.

Is this becoming more common or is it just the people I know? If you aren't skint but don't routinely carry money on you, why is that?

I've been in situations where I haven't expected to be spending any (or much) money and some problem has occurred or plans have changed for some reason (e.g. having to accompany someone to A & E or the last bus not turning up) and I would have been really stuck if I hadn't taken some spare 'emergency' cash.

It's surprising that a business that takes only cash has been in business for over a decade (and presumably only taking cash for that long).

HM Revenue and Customs might be very interested in their books.

The thing with a fingerprint is that they fade as you get older, mine doesn't work so well and I am only 60, blimming phone just keeps saying try again and then I have to put the pin in. It sometimes works well but is very temperamental.

Some people aren't able to even access a bank account

So won't even be able to receive benefits.

And in any event, before a society becomes cashless there will need to be a final rollout of basic-basic-basic bank accounts, possibly with regulatory pressure. That' hasn't happened yet because it doesn't need to, but if you think the fact that a tiny minority of people cannot get current bank accounts is going to slow the changes that are happening in all developed countries, I have a bridge to sell you.

Clue: how effective was "wah wah I don't want to use the Internet" in stopping the movement of most services online, and how effective has it been in preventing the High St being killed by online trade? You can strike a high moral tone all you like, but the reality is that very few people care.

Yes fingerprint technology is for the young.

Young?

My father is almost seventy and his fingerprint is still working just fine.

By all means claim 'sometimes fingerprint technology stops being as effective for some people in older age'.

But that'd be a bit less sympathy seeking and heart strings pulling than 'this technology excludes older people!'

The difference is that high street shops still exist. People are not stuck being unable to buy food for example as they can buy it on the high street. A Government can not leave some people unable to buy basic items.

PS how does one access their benefits payments without a bank account?

In a lot of places I have eaten in the restaurant won't do this. We ate out a couple of weeks ago and paid our part of the bill in cash to the person who organised it and they paid by card. I always take cash for this kind of situation. When it is just us we always pay by card.

This is why you need Venmo over there.

blastomama I assume you feel the people you refer to are the incapable, not the ones choosing not to, to whom I was referring to?

Except you don't know the difference, and the issues are the same either way.

The thing with a fingerprint is that they fade as you get older, mine doesn't work so well

Over the next ten years, do you think facial recognition as a replacement for fingerprint locks won't become more common? Do you think that fingerprint sensors may become better? As an argument for trying to oppose something which is going to take at least ten years to happen, "current technology which is changing and improving at a rapid rate won't be good enough in ten years" seems a pretty thin argument.

Storm Desmond was a classic example of how you shouldn't rely on cards and should carry some cash with you. We had no electric, no mobile signal and no landline phone (so no broadband). There were people stranded who had no money for even a taxi walking miles to get home in the dark. People couldn't buy basics such as food. It was a real eye-opener. Luckily there were loads of people providing help (inc pubs staying open all night for people to sit and stay when they couldn't travel and couldn't contact friends/family for lifts), but most of the charity wouldn't have been necessary if people had just kept some money on them instead of assuming/relying on their cards!

How did they ring a taxi with no mobile or phone lines?

You can get benefits in cash if you are homeless. Banks will not give accounts to homeless people.

You do know you can flag a taxi down? You are just being ridiculous now.

This is why you need Venmo over there

Don't need it. you can just do it with your bank account on your phone, no need for a third party.

I love venmo!

Pretty sure you can collect benefits from a PayPoint if you don't have a bank account. I think they only allow this in exceptional circumstances.

And the technology needs to improve massively. It is really still in its infancy.

You can do it with your bank account of course, but it's cumbersome.

You do know you can flag a taxi down?

In the centre of large cities, yes. Could you fill us in on the places where people were stranded without cash holed up in pubs, but could have flagged down a passing black cab had they only had some cash on them? Was the power out in Hoxton?

That's interesting Lightas. OH is 66 and his phone doesn't always respond to his finger. It doesn't help that he has very hard skin on his hands.

"Even contactless cards ask for the pin every once in a while"

Isn't that for all transactions over £30?

How secure is Pingit?

I learned something very interesting reading Yanis Varoufakis' most recent book the other day.

Basically he explained that apparently, one of the earliest developments of writing was used in Mesopotamia, where Iraq and Syria are now. It was used to make a note of how much grain farmers had stored in a communal granary, a sort of receipt. Farmers would deposit grain then be given something with marks scratched in to denote how much they had in there for when they returned.

Later on they were given shells with markings on as a currency. But one of the earliest mentions of metal coin currency was actually just written down 'Mr Smith has four metal coins worth of grain'. There were no actual tangible physical metal coins for a while after this. Just the words written down. And that was good enough for them.

This fascinated me as people today thousands of years later worry and hand wring over the idea of virtual currency like it's something new. But virtual currency, currency you and another party both believe exists in theory and have faith in being upheld, without the physical product of cash, has existed since we invented currency instead of simply swapping our produce for our neighbour's goods.

You do know you can flag a taxi down?

Not in the area storm Desmond hit. They are taxis not black cabs. Most of it was rural.

You can get benefits in cash if you are homeless. Banks will not give accounts to homeless people.

Assume that's true, and it's not something that can be fixed by regulatory action.

As a proposition, "Hey, Mr Asda, keep taking cash in your shops as otherwise you'll lose the vital homeless people market which is worth a fortune to your bottom line" isn't a winning commercial argument. So if you're relying on it to keep cash going, I'd look for a stronger pitch.

You can get a bank account if you are homeless with the help of a hostel or shelter. I volunteer in one and they can use our address to have their mail sent to.

I have no issue with virtual currency at all. My issues are

1. Disabled and elderly people being disenfranchised from it
2. The sheer amount of information companies collect about you if you no longer use cash.