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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think if you're on strike you shouldn't get paid?

98 replies

ClaraLaraLaLa · 03/03/2018 10:51

www.theguardian.com/education/2018/mar/02/uk-universities-threaten-punish-striking-staff-cancelled-lectures

I'm strongly in favour of the right to strike etc, I have participated in strikes myself before, for which I was docked a day's pay, as I expected.

Surely part of the point of going on strike it to show that you feel so strongly about the issue that you are prepared to forgo a day's pay in order to make your point?

OP posts:
Enuffsenuffsenuff · 03/03/2018 10:53

Just because strikers are prepared to forego a day's pay doesn't mean that is the way it 'should' be.

GreenSeededGrape · 03/03/2018 10:55

Of course it should be enuff Hmm

You don't want to work to make a point, perfectly fine. But you don't get paid not to work.

LadyLoveYourWhat · 03/03/2018 10:57

I think this article is a bit confusing, it's worth clicking through to the Kent University statement

www.kent.ac.uk/human-resources/pensions/uss-industrial-action2018/kents-pay-policy.html

This is on top of docking pay for strike days.

MySockIsWetAgain · 03/03/2018 10:58

Strikers have forgone a day's pay already (actually, 14 days). This was clear from the start and there never was any discussion about it.

What some universities are threatening to do now is to withold FURTHER pay, even for days when the strikers are at work, until the dispute is resolved. This would be unprecedented and cause a total collapse in relations with the staff.

gallicgirl · 03/03/2018 10:58

Isn't the issue that they're being docked pay disproportionately in addition to being expected to make up the lessons they missed?

So they are being docked a day's pay but in addition to that they're being threatened with being docked between 20% and 100% of their pay.

SueDunome · 03/03/2018 11:00

I don't think the issue is whether they will get paid while on strike - they will have lost that money. The issue here is that the universities want them to reschedule the lectures, that were missed because of the strike, and are threatening to deduct more money from them if they don't.

Pengggwn · 03/03/2018 11:00

They haven't been paid when not at work. This is about the universities taking punitive measures, effectively denying them their legal right to strike.

FaFoutis · 03/03/2018 11:01

We are docked 14 days pay then expected to do the work we were not paid for.

CavoliRiscaldati · 03/03/2018 11:02

universities want them to reschedule the lectures, that were missed because of the strike, and are threatening to deduct more money from them if they don't.

sounds fair enough to me, why would the students be punished?

Stricken commuters who lose wage should be able to invoice unions when they miss work for the same reason.

KalaLaka · 03/03/2018 11:03

Kent university's tone in that statement is draconian! What a terrible position to be placed in.

KalaLaka · 03/03/2018 11:04

Students who miss a few lectures can go to the library, watch ted talks, do research, create projects as part of a group. They're not children and should be perfectly able to study independently. Most students support their lecturers and understand that the strike is necessary.

DeathStare · 03/03/2018 11:05

This isn't about not being paid for when they are on strike. The strikers understand and accept that they will not be paid for those 14 days.

However the point in a strike is that you do not make up the work lost on those days on top of your ongoing work - if you did you would be doing the work for free (because you aren't paid when you are on strike).

What the universities are doing is that they are threatening to not pay the strikers for the days when they have returned to work, until they make up the work they would have done on the strike days (ie unless they do that work for free)

MereDintofPandiculation · 03/03/2018 11:06

As others have said, this isn't about being paid or not when you're on strike, it's about being "fined' by your pay being docked if you don't make up afterwards for lectures being missed (which would effectively be unpaid overtime in any case). Some lectures are being threatened with losing over a month's pay when the strikes have been only 5 days.

DeathStare · 03/03/2018 11:10

universities want them to reschedule the lectures, that were missed because of the strike, and are threatening to deduct more money from them if they don't

sounds fair enough to me, why would the students be punished?

It's not fair enough. The lecturers aren't being asked to cut the rest of their workload to reschedule the lectures lost. They are being asked to do it on top of their existing workload - ie to do overtime for free - and if they don't agree to do overtime for free then they won't get paid at all for the work they are actually doing.

And if the students are being punished it is by the universities not be the lecturers. If they wanted to the universities could use the HUGE amount of money they saved by not paying lecturers for the days they were on strike, and use this to fund any additional support the students need.

Birdsgottafly · 03/03/2018 11:10

That would mean that those on lower wages wouldn't be able to Strike. I can remember the food collections for the Miners and how they were eventually beaten down.

Our Train Staff are going through Strikes, in the North West, I'm in Liverpool. Its to do with the removal of Guards, its a matter of Safety and everyone is behind them.

Fighting for these important issues shouldn't put people at risk of losing their homes etc.

MaryWortleyMontagu · 03/03/2018 11:11

Just to add to what others have said - we don't (and don't expect to) get paid when we're on strike. This is about further extremely draconian deductions on top of the pay deducted for strike days. This is (fortunately) not a sector wide policy and it seems to be only a few institutions doing it. Other VCs by contrast are publicly supporting their staff.

RhiWrites · 03/03/2018 11:12

It’s really depressing how unaware people are of the facts behind this story, and about industrial action in general.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 03/03/2018 11:12

This is bullying tactics that, unfortunately, some people are misunderstanding.

The universities are threatening punitive actions over and above the already agreed and accepted non-payment for strike days.

This should (and probably will) be fought tooth and nail. Sadly that will make the situation for students even worse.

So yes, do get bloody angry! Write to all VCs and complain that their actions are causing untold hardship for all students - again!

Cavoli I can only hope that you and yours never ever have to work in an industry that treats you as badly as these lecturers are being treated. Because then you too would have to decide whether or not your own family was worth fighting for... or whether the angry comments of others would mean you would sacrifice your rights to protest to keep them happy!

Brokenbiscuit · 03/03/2018 11:23

This seems to be an extremely harsh stance that some universities are taking. It's entirely fair enough that staff lose a day's pay when they are on strike, but deducting further wages for the days when they are in work seems incredibly unfair.

CatsForgotPassword · 03/03/2018 11:26

YABU. People wouldn’t be able to afford to strike.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 03/03/2018 11:26

In solidarity.

CatsForgotPassword · 03/03/2018 11:27

Fighting for these important issues shouldn't put people at risk of losing their homes etc.

This

corythatwas · 03/03/2018 11:52

This is my situation as an academic:

I am employed on a 0.5 contract and have been told there is no money for more. So I should be working 2 1/2 days a week. My workload, however, requires a fulltime week.

Letter from Inland Revenue just arrived: my total gross salary for last year, at the age of 54, with 30 years teaching experience and as an internationally recognised authority in my field, was just over £15.000. I cannot live on this. On the other hand, I cannot take a second part-time job as my teaching/research/admin requires a fulltime week.

The university ARE ALREADY DEDUCTING FULL PAY FOR THE DAYS I AM ON STRIKE and fair play to them, naturally they have a right to do that. Nobody's ever disputed it.

What they are now threatening to do is to count every day I work ACCORDING TO MY ACTUAL 0.5 CONTRACT as Action Short of Strike and dock the pay for those days IN ADDITION TO THE PAY ALREADY DOCKED FOR STRIKE DAYS.

So you see: I cannot live on my salary and will be penalised if I try to spend time making up the shortfall elsewhere.

They are also saying we will be penalised for not rescheduling lectures. I HAVE BEEN TRYING ALL SEMESTER TO RESCHEDULE LECTURES that are pedagogically unsuitable and occasioning student complaints: we do not have the capacity! We have all been told we are no longer allowed to put these requests to Timetabling as they cannot deal with them. The only thing we are currently able to do is to request rescheduling for actual errors, as in failing to timetable entire module of mine, or timetabling modules that aren't running.

When a group of my students were double-booked on university activities, I had to cram the entire seminar group (15 students) into a tiny office that happened to be empty: this worked due to great good-humour of students, but it's hardly going to work for 100+ lecture groups. So WE ARE GOING TO BE PENALISED FOR SOMETHING THE UNIVERSITY CANNOT ACTUALLY ENABLE US TO DO.

Sorry for shouting, but I have been so proud of the work I do and it hurts so much to see how little my employers value it. Students, on the other hand, have been amazing, turning up to picket lines with cakes and telling us how much we are appreciated.

We have one of the highest paid VCs in the country, and the highest expenses claim record for senior staff, at the same time as savings are being made through cutting teaching staff by voluntary severance. I stepped in and took a seminar group for the whole of last semester in a different department, completely unpaid and unthanked as far as management were concerned, because there was simply nobody else to do it. And we do that sort of thing, on a regular basis, on the kind of salary I mentioned above.

And now the University are telling me, not only that they have no intention of ever recognising all my extra work, but that they will penalise me if I stop doing it.

My husband and I set out on a similar route, even worked together for a while, but he went into the commercial side and I went into academia, mainly because I really enjoy teaching. He cannot believe how we are being treated.

AhhhhThatsBass · 03/03/2018 11:58

Yanbu. If people got paid to strike, everyone would be at it. People get paid to work, not to strike.

That said, it does leave very low paid workers in a tricky situation if they can’t afford to not work but that work itself consists of poor conditions. So the ones most likely to need to strike over poor working conditions are the very people that can’t afford strike to improve things. Perhaps unions need to have an emergency/hardship fund to support these workers during a strike? I don’t know how that would be implemented in practice however.

SoupyNorman · 03/03/2018 12:01

Yanbu. If people got paid to strike, everyone would be at it. People get paid to work, not to strike.

RTFT.

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