Cultural misappropriation and hair

[meandthem]

Am I being unreasonable to object to ethnicity being a factor in respect of what hairstyle choices women are "allowed"? I am pissed of that it now seems acceptable for some styles to be considered cultural misappropriation. What happened to the sisterhood and feminism and women's right to do what the hell we want with our hair!

It does puzzle me how a mixed race (Jesy from Little Mix) woman can't wear dreadlocks without getting shit about 'appropriation' but a man can don a dress and a bit of lippie and he becomes an 'actual woman'.

Is Jesy mixed? I'd have assumed she was based on her appearance, but all the comments have been about her being white. She's quite ambiguous looking.

You're not the first person to have made the point about sex and race in this context though! Dolezal v Jenner etc.

I too think it’s just hair.

Flashing, it's great for you that you've never had to worry about how to present your hair or that it might stop you from being able to support yourself financially, might disadvantage your children or change the way you're treated by others.

It might be 'just hair' to you, but to other people who haven't been as fortunate as to be able to waltz through life doing exactly what they want, hairstyles like cornrows and braids have a huge cultural and political significance, carry connotations of oppression and symbolise the pain and suffering that generations of their families have faced.

Nazi uniforms are 'just clothes' made of fabric, but obviously they also carry certain connotations.

To dismiss this issue on the basis that white people can do what they like and it's 'just hair' is exactly why others have a problem with it.

Cultural appropriation is a pile of absolute shit made up by people who have too much time on their hands. Ironically the people who moan about, those with a pseudo liberal facade are probably the ones calling anyone who doesn’t let a bloke claiming to be a woman changing the women’s changing rooms because gender appropriation obviously doesn’t exist. Op you aren’t being unreasonable except feminism has nothing to do with it, individual choice has😁

@TheNavigator it's easy to say fuck intersectionality when you're white - you're just saying you're happy to keep benefitting from an exploitative situation. Some of us, however, think that isn't good enough. Black hair styles aren't a costume for white people. Bindis aren't a costume for white people. Native American war bonnets aren't a costume for white people. You don't get to pick and choose the bits of a culture that you like whilst simultaneously refusing to acknowledge the discrimination people in that culture face.

How black do you have to be, to be allowed to wear black hairstyles then?

Say you're 1/16 black, is it still cultural appropriation?

The article linked to above shows exactly what is wrong with cultural appropriation, but not in the manner intended by its author.

The very first sentence I see suspect: CA is the adoption of certain elements of a culture without the consent of the people belonging to that culture. Firstly it is patronizing to assume that people who belong to a culture all hold the same views. Secondly it is uninformed to think that cultural elements exist in isolation in the culture in question without affecting and having been affected by other cultures. Thirdly it is grossly impractical to think that obtaining the consent of an entire culture is possible (even in a direct referendum it is blatantly clear that the result does not represent the consent of all the people in the culture, e.g. Brexit and the deep division it has revealed).

The second point is also poorly made but perhaps more plausible in spirit. This is the idea that CA is not about exposure to and influence by the culture, but members of the dominant group exploiting the culture of the less priviledged groups. This point can be made well, but not by this author. One cannot exploit cultures and harm people, one can exploit people by using their cultures and sense of identity. Here's how: some groups have strong cultural identities, they associate certain practices with who they are. Now imagine the same groups being under threat from majority groups and being labeled as less desirable and less worthy. The practices then are considered less desirable and less worthy because they are what this minority group typically value. The CA bit is when a dominant culture continues to view the minority group poorly but takes on their practices as desirable, thus rejecting them but taking over practices that form their identity.
For example, consider Aboriginal people in Australia. Historically they have been treated by white Australian immigrants as uncivilized, second rate citizens and have had their lands taken away from them and their families forcibly broken up. Should white Australians use Aboriginal traditions to bolster tourism, for example, without acknowledging the value of the people behind the practices this is CA. But clearly not all engagement with the cultural practices is CA, because should white Australians use Aboriginal practices to celebrate Aboriginal peoples, e.g. by having a national day coincide with a significant Aboriginal day, then that is not CA.

YANBU OP.

But I’m still waiting for VladmirsPoutine to come back and explain herself to us 😀

But when a black woman wears European hair wigs there is no issue. Double standards.

margaritasbythesea
I’ve watched the film. It is about American history. I’m not American. I’m British. The racism over there is vile and rightly fuels a lot of anger and disgust.

I clearly have some Nordic blood in me. So my ancestors, the vikings, braided their hair. As did many cultures. Dh has part Egyptian blood in him. They braided their hair. Women also braided their hair in the British isles.

Yes, braiding is and has been prominent for people with Afro-textured hair. However, black people cannot claim exclusivity for all braids, which is what seems to be happening here, am I wrong? I’m really struggling to see why I shouldn’t plait my dds hair in a way in which her ancestors would have done for fashion reasons.

If anyone can tell me how a white person refusing to have dreadlocks will make life better for even a single black person then I'll happily agree that they shouldn't have them. But currently I don't see it.

@strugglingtodomybest

It depends on the situation, I think. Lots of Native American tribes have specific rules about what 'percentage' you need to be to belong. For some it's as little as 1/16, for others as much as 25%. In those cases it's obviously for the tribe to decide.

In cases where there is no relevant tribe (for example, mixed race Brits) I guess it depends on your cultural background - if you have one black great grandparent but have been raised as white in a white family and your black ancestry has had absolute no effect on your upbringing or cultural environment, I think it could be exploitative to claim black culture as your own. But I don't think there is a hard rule - it would depend so much on context.

Flitterbyeee

But when a black woman wears European hair wigs there is no issue. Double standards.

White people weren't forced to cover their hair by black slave owners.

It's not about how black heritage you have struggling it's about how black you look.

My hair is thin and frizzy and awful and just getting it to look presentable is a real struggle so there's no way I'd try to get involved with any hairstyling but I'd like to understand how white people refraining from braiding their hair or having dreadlocks - or being 'called out' if they do have them - advances BAME equality? I understand it's a political issue but surely the aim is to stop it being a political issue and for everyone to be able to feel "it's just hair"?

Don't recall all this fuss over bo Derek or wotsername from steps, both white with cornrows and dreads.

Am I being anti feminist by having my ghastly (on me) natural frizzball straightened to a tidy and more importantly comfortable texture?

But when a black woman wears European hair wigs there is no issue. Double standards.

It's not double standards! When European women wear their hair in its natural state they aren't told that it doesn't look 'professional' or that it looks 'unkempt'. Why do you think so many black women wear wigs compared to white women in the first place?

Thanks naice, but to force children to be racially aware still feels wrong to me. As a 15 year old I was in a fight, I screamed I don't know why you hate me, I was told because you hang out with coloureds , I replied I don't know any coloureds. My friends explained later.

There is some bullshit on this thread. And also some people who actually understand the concept of cultural appropriation and how harming it can be to ethnic minorities.

What I’ve noticed is that some white people don’t seem to believe cultural appropriation is a ‘thing’. These people are the sort of people who probably also don’t notice micro-aggressions - put simply, they don’t believe in it. But to ethnic minorities, cultural appropriatelion is definitely a thing - it’s just a thing many white people don’t care about, because it doesn’t affect them emotionally.

Flutterbyeee your statement is idiotic. Black women wear Caucasian hairstyles because society tells them that is what is acceptable and pretty. When you’ve worn a wig that is uncomfortable and itchy, or spent 8 hours getting a migraine-inducing set of braids and extensions (option a: look whiter, option b: control your hair and make it long because it’s wild and won’t grow) you come talk to me.

I don’t usually get involved in threads like this but Christ, the fact that conversations like this irritates me beyond belief. I’ve grown up mixed race in what I feel is a primarily white world - it’s so easy for white people to say the ‘problem’ is over. Not in my experience. Just like it’s easy for men to deny a gender pay gap.

And that's the problem Enuff I don't want to "appropriate black culture" (I'm 1/16 with "Mediterranean" skin). I just want to style my persistently mixed race hair (it didn't get the 1/16 memo) in a way that works. I don't want to straighten it to make strangers feel more comfortable.

BarbarianMum is right. DS is 75% white but will be treated as a black boy and a black man by society because he doesn’t ‘look’ white. There is nothing he can do about that.

Negroland is a good book - from a US perspective but addresses colourism - a whole other can of worms.

@Flutterbyeee the reason it's not the same is that white people have not been historically enslaved, oppressed and discriminated against. White beauty standards are still seen as the 'norm'. White people arent discriminated against for their hair. Therefore if a black persons wears a wig, they aren't benefitting from a style which a white person faces discrimination for. That's why it isn't a double standard.

@notdavidtennant because when white people wear dreadlocks they are given credit for something they didn't create. Whereas if we only see dreadlocks on the people who belong to the culture that created them, the credit will go to the right people. Remember that hairstyles are only one part of cultural appropriation. It also happens in fashion, tribal dress and customs, jewellery, music, art etc. That adds up to a lot of people of colour not getting the recognition they deserve for the things they create.

Imagine you were in a meeting and made a suggestion that was ignored. Five minutes later a colleague makes the same suggestion and everyone loves it. That would be damaging to you wouldn't it? Now imagine that happening over and over again and you see why cultural appropriation is harmful.

How much better would it be if your colleague, instead of taking your idea, used their privilege to say 'hey everyone, a few minutes ago NotDavidTennant made a great suggestion, everyone should listen to it'.

My hair is almost afro in appearance it's that frizzy. I've been told many times in the workplace it looks unprofessional and have been told to straighten it, curl it, cut it, put it up out of the way etc. Nowadays, esp in the UK, there is less chance of a black person being told their hair looks unprofessional than a white person. Any decent HR department would shit their pants if a black person told them they've been told their hair is unprofessional. And rightly so.

Lovesagin - nobody would say it, but they might think it. And statistically the white person is still likely to be a) promoted and b) paid more money.

Surely black women don't wNt to have to water wigs and ruin their scalp health and hair. It's not the same thing. Feeling you need to be as white as possible in order to be accepted and make any kind of head way in the world is not stealing white people's looks.