To be unhappy about how my new job works

[allworknolife]

Name changed in case it's outing. I've recently started a new job as a trainee estate agent. My base salary is a £11k paycut from my old job, but was assured with commision would be a lot higher. I've done admin for years and was bored of it so took the job despite my concerns... but I'm pretty unhappy with a few things

1. Advertised as 5 day a week job, but it's 6 days every other week as you have to work two Saturdays a month

2. Only 20 days holiday, despite having to work 26 Saturdays a year for no extra money apparently its 'factored into your basic'

3. £12k base salary.. for working 5 days 9.00-17:30 and 6 days at 9:00-17:30 Saturday 9:00-16:00.. just seems crazy long hours for such a low base

It's upsetting because I really wanted to break away from admin, and parts of the job I love. However I am immensely micromanaged and with all these crappy aspects I'm tempted to run for the hills.

Part of my job is listing new Properties and marketing, which I love and am really enjoying.. but the sales side of things is so targeted and they expect you to work overtime for no extra base wage just to sell more than others. I want to be good at my job and to sell.. but this job feels like I'm living to work not working to live.

I'm sad and don't want to fail but I'm just exhausted and feel like they do not reward their staff enough for the hours we put it.

Your holiday entitlement isn't right either. You should be getting more than 20 days as the minimum entitlement is 5.6 weeks so you should get at least 28 days off.

You say that it is a trainee position, is it an apprenticeship? I know our apprentices get less than normal minimum wage the reasoning being they are getting training and a qualification I believe. (Personally I think this is disgusting) I also think that you can expect to be micromanaged whilst you are training to a certain degree. I would check your contract regarding the working hours and weekends though.

@pinkdonkey no not an apprenticeship, just not fully qualified yet so technically training. No extra money once qualified though

AvocadosBeforeMortgages I’m sure more of us are interested in what you say too.

I meant hijack the thread with my details, not Avocados, if that's what it sounded like!

We're definitely docked an hour a day but when I go for lunch manager always times half hour. Said to one of my colleagues about the other half hour and he said it's to account for 'inevitable moments of the day when we're not doing work' i.e checking phones, making drinks etc

That's a new one I'm not sure what the legality of that one is but it sounds highly suspect to me.

For context, I'm not a lawyer, I'm just an interested layperson with some background knowledge on the matter. ACAS are the ones to call for these more vexed questions. www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1410

Haven't had a payslip yet but will check back when I do. Will just be my basic as haven't sold anything yet still training.

If it will just be your basic they will almost certainly be breaking the law as they need to pay you at least minimum wage for the pay reference period (i.e. if you're weekly paid, that week; if you're monthly paid, that month)

Another thing is already working 9:00-17:30 5/6 days every week but you're expected to be in the office by half 8, if you get there any later they are very disapproving so feels like another half hour unpaid on top of everything else..

While you could reasonably be expected to be ready and at your desk for 9am (coat off, tea made) if they're expecting you to put fingers to keyboard before 9 then you should be being paid for that time.

Your holiday entitlement isn't right either. You should be getting more than 20 days as the minimum entitlement is 5.6 weeks so you should get at least 28 days off.

The 28 days will include bank holidays; presumably the 20 days the OP refers to is in addition to bank holidays - but if this is the case, the bank holidays must be paid. www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights

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OP - it's sounding increasingly likely that you will have a claim for unpaid NMW on your hands. However, the place sounds bloody awful to work for, and there's a good chance that they will find a reason to sack you once you start a claim for NMW - or at the very least they will be even more unpleasant. On those grounds, I would be looking for alternative work and as soon as you are out of there make a claim for NMW - both so that you get what you're owed, and so that they're less likely to try it on with future employees.

Sounds like everyone before you has bent over and accommodated these shitty rules and not questioned the legality of them. If I was entitled to an hour at lunch I would take an hour! They sound like the employers from hell. I wouldn't last a day.

This is just wrong! Leave.

After so many years doing admin was so excited to do something new... keep thinking I can try and see past this stuff but just seems like glaring problems with the HR side of things. I voiced these concerns to my colleagues and they are all aware of them and just say you get used to it. I just don't think it's right at all how so many people are going along with it! It's a smaller company not a big name.. maybe that's where I've gone wrong?!

Echoing everything the wise Avocados has said. Law is on your side but these people are unlikely to be interested in that so I would suggest starting looking for something else!

After so many years doing admin was so excited to do something new... keep thinking I can try and see past this stuff but just seems like glaring problems with the HR side of things. I voiced these concerns to my colleagues and they are all aware of them and just say you get used to it. I just don't think it's right at all how so many people are going along with it! It's a smaller company not a big name.. maybe that's where I've gone wrong?!

It's not your fault. Don't beat yourself up about it; we've all had a crap employer at least once in our lives (though I remember challenging similar nonsense when I was a teenager working abroad and being very satisfied when I was paid every cent I was owed in a brown envelope after one letter before action!)

People in your workplace likely fall into two categories
a) doormats, like your colleagues who have got used to their rights being trampled on
b) people who have some self respect and end up moving on pronto

It's a lot easier to get out of there now, erase the very short period of employment from your CV and find something else. Big companies are perhaps more developed in the HR side of things / are more conscious of the publicity that bad practices can attract, but it's not a universal thing.

It really sounds like you're not cut out for Sales OP.

I actually burst out laughing at the half an hour lunch - that would be nice for me in any given day! Clock watching, hour counting and the other stuff you've mentioned don't come into it.

I work with some admin people who are overtly hostile to the Sales Team but they wouldn't dream of giving up their prescribed 9-5, 1 hour lunch, leave work at the door lives!

Horses for courses. In Sales it's your number that drives your earnings and that doesn't suit everyone.

Being an estate agent is a really shit job OP, I’m sorry you feel you made the wrong decision. There is time to change it, don’t drag it out. Get back temping and research your next move. At least you tried

Estate agency, property sales, is fucking thankless. And in this sort of environment, don't think you won't be let go if you don't make commission - it's really ruthless and cutthroat; lots of people don't make 6 months.

However, if you enjoy the admin side of it, meeting people, property, the interaction side, I would strongly suggest you look for a role as a property management assistant- in block/freehold/estate if you have fairly strong maths skills, lettings if not. There's no selling, there's a strong career path, qualifications you can do and it's really interesting, in as much as you don't know what's going to happen each day!

It's a lot easier to get out of there now, erase the very short period of employment from your CV and find something else.
I'd actually give it a while - it would be easy to explain any shortish stay by saying that it was too cut-throat because most people would appreciate that (and would judge you positively if anything)

I actually burst out laughing at the half an hour lunch - that would be nice for me in any given day! Clock watching, hour counting and the other stuff you've mentioned don't come into it

But jobs like that are only beneficial if you are earning a lot of money. Not less than NMW, where it's simply not worth it. The OP should be paid at least NMW with a realistic chance of commision on top within a reasonable period, eg a few months.

She should also reasonably expect to work in accordance with the working time directive, ie an actual break of at least 20 minutes per day, once she has worked at least 6 hours.

Just because some people accept illegal shitty working conditions, doesn't mean that others should be penalised for wanting their employer to comply with the law.

I wonder if this employer has a high turnover, with lots of 'trainees' paid a pittance and don't stay very long, and certainly not long enough to be paid the going rate for the job.

When is pay day ? Do you have much longer to wait to make sure it's right ? Other than the pay/hours do you like the job ?

I do understand that a lot of sales people find my complaints laughable but please understand I came into this job from a marketing/administration background and was told my job would be a combination of both - to go from a 9-5 job with an hour lunch break, 2 days off a week, 35 days annual leave and paid sick leave to suddenly working 6 days weeks, half hour lunch with an hour docked, 20 days annual leave and no sick pay is a bit of a shock to the system. I'm happy to work hard to make my money but inside the hours I'm paid to do so. So many of my colleagues are happy to give up their one day off every other week and evenings to do even more work and make more calls, that's expected but I just don't see that's right.

I believe in work to live not live to work. I'm just scared I'm going to have no time to have a life outside of this role and that's not what I signed up for. I'm yet to be presented with a contract, I'd done admin for years and was making good money but I thought EA was more of a 'career'. I was told all about OTE and how much I could earn, shown figures of how much as a standard others were earning, was told 5 day weeks and weekends on a rota basis. Yes I was stupid to not see this in writing and yes I was misled and foolish but now I'm just trying to decide whether I shut up, work hard and make a career for myself or whether I go back to what I know and a good work/life balance?

It's not a chain of estate agents beginning with an A by any chance OP? I had a similar experience with a job and left within a fortnight as working conditions were so awful!

I'm yet to be presented with a contract
How long have you been there and when will you get this? Surely a contract should have been signed and both parties agreeing to it before you started.
Fwiw I used to work for a company where I was expected to go in early, stay late if we were busy, didn't get much holiday and was frowned on if I'd finished my lunch and hadn't got straight back to work. I enjoyed the job so just put up with it, but eventually it breeds contempt for your employers. My own fault for being young and a doormat, but I've learned I will never put up with that shit again. Your employer isn't grateful for your extra unpaid hours and you come first. I'd honestly think about finding something where you're treated with respect.

Isn't minimum wage about 15k now???

When I was an estate agent years ago I got guaranteed commission for the first few months to make up for the fact that my basic was so low and I'd have no sales immediately - do you not get that either? I'd suggest certainly getting out of this job ASAP, however I'd also urge you to reconsider taking another EA role as with transactions and instructions at near record lows, it's not going to be an opportunity to earn much for a long while yet

Thanks all for the advice by the way, too many to reply personally but I do appreciate all the replies. It's stressing me out because I didn't do uni or get qualification and I've worked admin for years for NHS/civil service until moving to different company to do marketing/admin and it's just a different culture. I'd never of taken a fully sales job as I do value my work/life balance and don't want to be targeted constantly and under threat if not selling enough etc, it just wasn't what they made it sound and I feel so foolish..
A lot of people there are making good money so I'm just torn. I know if I get my head down and work hard I can probably make good money to but just worried about the expense of that on my personal life. Switching jobs I lost 15 days holiday a year and have gone from have 8 days off a month with DP to only 2.. it's just difficult and I don't know how to proceed.

I think this is pretty standard in Estate Agency tbh, in a sales role. You have to be there when the public is around, evenings and weekends basically. They should have told you the correct terms, but you will have to factor in weekend working in most Estate agents.

you have to make a decision. do you want to cut your losses and leave now so that you don't have to put this on your cv and you can then have the time to look for something else. or do you want to stay and fight for your rights in terms of working hours minimum wage etc. If you do the latter then you can forget getting good training and promotion and would be doing it really more for the people coming after you.

personally, on that salary I would just be walking away but putting all my concerns in detail in writing with a copy to every single member of staff in that office, the manager and the head office team. basically telling everyone. I would also be looking to pursue the underpaying aspects as others have detailed.

cultures like this do change but invariably the person who instigates that change gets the pointy end of the stick.