WTF cyclists in the snow

[lifeandtheuniverse]

Cycling in the snow and ice, with no lights on and no reflective gear.

AIBU to think they should be arrested as a danger on the road.

Just had one fall off as lost back wheel on the snow,, car behind him managed to swerve round lost his back end and corrected. Me second car behind, I slam on brakes as he slides towards my front wheels - feet under my bumper. Car behind me ends up touching my bumper!

Then the moron has the balls to swear, berate me and demand my details.

Cyclists are an absolute menace, everywhere and anywhere. They annoy the hell out of me.

Great reasoned arguments on here .

The thing is that as someone driving a two ton metal box around you clearly have the advantage and need to drive with other, more vulnerable road users in mind.

I drive on the A61 North of Leeds at dusk most weeks, winding and undulating. You would have to pay me to ride my bike on that road but plenty do. I find myself constantly thinking about how there could be a cyclist round every bend or out of view the other side of every hill. Because I am aware and I have seen more than a few near misses.

Would it be the cyclist's fault if I hit him because he was looking incredibly slick in black rapha clothing on a dark bike without decent lights on when the light was fading, not really it would be mine for not taking due care.

I can't do anything about his actions but I certainly can about mine.

@ElanorGamgee if the law says that's your fault then the law is an ass and needs changing.

@lifeandtheuniverse hope the fuckwit does go to the Guards and they charge him.

Well, it would be nice if every one of these didn’t turn into another game of cyclist bingo ( road tax? tick helmets? tick an absolute menace? tick, etc.) just because the OP had a problem with a cyclist. It’s always silly season here.

The OP could easily have been:
"Take care on the roads folks! Just had a scary experience on the road where a cyclist nearly got injured and I nearly crashed in these awful conditions! It's much worse than you might think! It would be great if we could all slow down, be really visible and make sure our vehicles are properly prepared for this wintry weather!"
But it wasn't.
It was just an angry rant about an incident none of us witnessed which has invited people to make such stupid statements as "cyclists are an absolute menace ...they annoy the hell out of me".
Whatever happened to patience and tolerance?
I know not one single person IRL who would ever admit to hating everyone on a bike because it's just plain daft to hate an entire part of the population simply because they ride a feckin bike.
Only on MN.

how am I responsible for anything!

I was wondering how to sum up your attitude OP, thanks for saving me the bother!

He was responsible for his own accident, neither car 1,2 or 3 or the guy on the opposite side of the road caused him to fall - verbally abusing us for his own stupidity is not acceptable.

We all had a shock, 4 people asked him if he was OK - helped pick him up, offered him a lift home, retrieved his bike and he abused us! What part of that can be laid at the feet of the drivers - is beyond me.

I neither think all cyclists are menaces or all drivers - the minority make it bad for all concerned.

Both are lethal weapons and both cause death and catastrophic injuries, one more effectively than the other but that does not absolve one or other from being responsible for their actions. The defence that more cyclists and pedestrians are killed and injured by cars therefore cyclists killing pedestrians does not matter - being spouted here by some people is just ridicuous. No one gives a damn if they were hit by a car or a cyclist and injured the mechanism is irrelevant the results are similar to the victim.

The poster who talked about insurance - absolute respect, if you use the roads bike, motorbike, car , van, lorry, quadbike etc you are a lethal weapon to someone and as such should be insured against the eventualities. VED / road tax or whatever anyone wants to call it is irrelevant - insure yourself - if cars, vans, lorries and motorbikes have to so should cyclists.

The cyclist went down the hill backwards into a stationary car. He was very lucky the car in front managed to get out of his way without putting themselves or others in danger

I'm all for safe cycling, love a bit of it myself. It's better for the planet, it's good for your health.

But not in this weather

And for all the people saying it's always the cars fault - they need to compensate for cyclists who have taken no responsibility for their own safety - Really?

The defence that more cyclists and pedestrians are killed and injured by cars therefore cyclists killing pedestrians does not matter

Find me one person who said that.

MrsJoshDun - I can think of 3 pedestrians killed by cyclists in the last 5 years. Very sad but statistically speaking a pedestrian or other road user is far less likely to be killed by a cycle than a car. ( stats irrelevant, bikes kill as do cars )

Cakeflake - As to cyclists not hurting anyone - please talk to the family of the woman killed by a cyclist last year - bikes are a lethal weapon, as are cars.
Sure, but bikes cause 0.6% of pedestrian fatalities in road collisions, motor vehicles cause the other 99.4%. ( am sure the 0.6% of dead peoples family really care about the stats.

Etymology - t is possible for them to cause injuries or even kill someone: but the latter is highly unlikely and a serious injury is also unlikely even if you’re hit by a bike. ( tell that to the 100+ people seriousyl injured by cyclists last year w - will really make them feel happy!)

itstime for - cyclists will probably only hurt themselves. Car and lorry drivers can kill others, too. ( they kill aswell)

MrPan - As usual, it's the car drivers causing the death and chaos and costs on the road, not people on bikes.

Dangerous? We've had death and life-changing injuries. Caused by driving, not by riding a bike.

Anne - enough people on here do not, they have shown evidence that they either do not believe that cyclists can kill and seriously injure other humans and if so because it is statistically smaller than cars hitting cyclists - so what.

That is the attitude I hate.

The bike snobbery and belief that you can not criticise a fellow cyclist acting stupidly, is an attitude I loathe and gives the whole cycling lobby an impression of rabid one eyedness on the whole debate.

@lifeandtheuniverse

What other situations can we apply "the minority make it bad for all concerned". Trumps certainly heeded your advice with his approach to Muslims but where else can I use your wisdom?

You have to be of a legally responsible age to drive a motorised vehicle. Does your child have a stakeboard? Bike? Scooter? Hope they have insurance.

I wouldn’t say you can never criticise cyclists. I wouldn’t say injuries caused by cyclists don’t matter. I wouldn’t say that cyclists shouldn’t take appropriate measures to reduce risk.

I would say that choosing to leave your house exposes you to risk, and that as a society we choose to legislate proportionately against those risks. HGVs are more dangerous (driven improperly) than cars, so we require additional training for those people to be permitted to drive them. Cars are less dangerous but still very dangerous if driven improperly, hence some training is a legal requirement. The risk from cyclists (even badly ridden) is lower so there is no legal training requirement.

This doesn’t mean that cyclists can’t injure people or that that doesn’t matter - just that it’s lower risk and we therefore have reduced training. Bicycles have more other societal benefits than cars, hence overall it’s deemed better to make it as easy as possible for them to be on the road. The levels of injuries caused (while obviously being life changing and horrific for those involved) do not justify the cost involved with legislating around cycling in a similar way to cars. This isn’t some kind of snub against those injured but is the kind of cost benefit analysis that has to happen all the time when there is a “limited” pot to spend and more things to spend on than money available. That might not be a cost benefit analysis with which you agree, and you are free to campaign otherwise.

I’m both a car driver and a cyclist. I’m acutely aware that cyclists sometimes behave inadvisably. I’m also acutely aware that that applies to cars too. This incident was not your fault if you were able to stop 30m from his bike. But just like we aren’t supposed to tar car drivers with the same brush, it’s important not to make the same leap with cyclists, that have been made be some people throughout this thread.

I think the OP is making things up in saying that the cyclist slid 30m down the road that cars were driving up. If it was that slippery there was no way that the cars would have been able to drive up it, and he wouldn't have been able to cycle up it to start with.

^Anne - enough people on here do not, they have shown evidence that they either do not believe that cyclists can kill and seriously injure other humans and if so because it is statistically smaller than cars hitting cyclists - so what.

That is the attitude I hate.

The bike snobbery and belief that you can not criticise a fellow cyclist acting stupidly, is an attitude I loathe and gives the whole cycling lobby an impression of rabid one eyedness on the whole debate.^

No one has said "so what" or "it doesn't matter". You are making up quotes just like you made up half your OP.

Get help. Or don't, I don't care about you, just stay the fuck off the road.

anne - bit unnecessary don't you think.

The OP has shown that people have clearly said that cyclists can not kill and cause serious injury that is not a fallacy.

You want the OP to stay off the road for stopping her car, not hitting a cyclist, not causing the cyclist to fall off and to get verbally abused. There is only one person in the wrong and that is not the OP.

No, he shouldn't have sworn at you. I probably would've sworn but certainly not at people offering me a lift... (then again, I use lights and reflective accessories and haven't got earphones in both ears blocking out all noise)
That said, to PPs...
If you have cyclists so very much would you prefer them to drive instead? More traffic, more pollution... and surely if they're the tossers you believe them to be it's better that they constitute a lesser danger on a bike?

*hate not have