To worry that my 14 year old daughter is going on DofE bronze practice expedition this weekend?

[Stargazey44]

Given that the weather forecast is still for snow and freezing temperatures? They are no longer camping but will be overnighting in scout huts, which is a shame but surely necessary in this weather. They are city kids, and so might be less prepared than some for the conditions. When I emailed the organisation to ask if it was still going ahead they said yes because it would be difficult to re-organise! Maybe I am overreacting but would love to have some reassurance that DofE accredited companies can be trusted to make sensible decisions when it comes to the safety of the children in their care? At the moment I am not even sure the trains will be running to get them to the meeting point...

But you wouldn't stop them crossing the road or getting in a car.

What's the point of this argument? Getting in cars/crossing roads is unavoidable - a DoE bronze expedition is not a necessary achievement. Grown adults have died this past week because they've gone out and not realised how dangerous it is out there - why would you send an inexperienced 14yo?

I grew up in Sydney. Our school DofE organiser was pretty miffed when my parents contacted the school to point out that the national park they were due to take groups through was shut due to bushfires and that they wouldn't be able to go. The organiser before that had managed to get a group stranded sufficiently to need helicopter rescue. In the end I tried doing DofE via a non-school route - after hearing some of the "planning" and advice being given my parents were no longer surprised at the frequency with which DofE expedition groups ended up on the news. I hope they managed to improve in the following years!

You are right to question, but hopefully will be given answers that reassure the judgements being made.

For me, it would depend very much on who was organising it. BELA-qualified youth group/ outdoor centre staff: less worried.

Bronze DofE is not trecking in the Alps, its pitching a tent in a field down the road.

Christ on a bike.

Hotcross - the point is that it's about assessing risk and not wrapping them in cotton wool unnecessarily. It's common sense.

I wouldn't put my daughter in the car for a journey if the snow were thick and the roads icy. But I would if it was a light dusting.

The same applies here. the people who organise these things are v experienced. If they think it's unsafe because it's too cold or snowy, they'll cancel.

My dd also 14 is camping with scouts this weekend.
i keep thinking they'll call it off, but nothing yet.
Mine is actually camping I believe, will have to check if they have indoor facilities.
It's natural to worry, my concerns are that she has the correct equipment and doesn't try to be cool by not wearing enough.
I'm hoping the leaders will make her wrap up if she doesn't of her own accord.

I'm ex army illustrious. Also the daughter of an infantry soldier of 25 years who ran an adventure training unit for years and took his kids along for the ride frequently. I feel pretty confident about my opinion on this thanks

I used to go on hillwalking expeditions with my school(Scotland) when I was a teenager in the 80's
We frequently went away for weekend in the highlands of Scotland in snow conditions- exhilarating and breathtaking ....as long as you have correct equipment, clothing and an experienced leader, she'll be fine ....
I also did a dofE leadership course and if there's any concern regarding conditions they will have to postpone it, but really isn't the whole ethos of dofE to promote resilience and team building

DS is doing his this weekend too and has been off school this week with a temperature and vomiting. They've told us to double up sleeping bags and mats. And there's a church hall on standby.

Bronze DoE resulted I'm my son camping on a mountain and parents getting calls to come and collect them as a storm brew up and the temperature plummeted.

I suspect it will be a wet cold miserable weekend to be outside. But that’s what will make it a memorable experience which will test them, and she will probably enjoy it a lot.

-3 isn’t cold then you are being active, she probably won’t end up wearing the jacket while walking. I now live in the US where is -20 in the winter so I have experienced this a lot.

I used to run DoE for the Air Cadets. I probably wouldn’t have cancelled either

She'll be fine. You'll worry, but she'll fine. My OH has just completed his two week Bravo course with the Army Reserves and he was camping out in temperatures of -6, at least your daughter is in a hut! Just make sure she has thermals

If they think it's unsafe because it's too cold or snowy, they'll cancel.

But my point is, grown adults who should know better, have thought this weather is fine to go out in, and have died as a result. I wouldn't want to go walking/camping in this weather so I sure as hell wouldn't be sending my kids.

It's icy, cold, windy and there's a risk of blizzards - why would you send an inexperienced 14yo out hiking/camping in that? There's a risk of slipping/injuries, and the emergency services are stretched as it is.

There are plenty of other chances to do DoE, why pick one of the windiest and coldest weekends of the season?

D of E bronze doesn't go high & the routes planned have to be on footpaths and bridleways. They have checkpoints and an emergency number to call.

If they are properly kitted out (warm sensible clothes) then they will be fine. A few inches of snow does not require specialist equipment.

I'd only take ice axe/crampons etc if I'm going to some of the peaks in the lakes etc.

Layers and spare socks brrrr (actually there are ice and wind warnings in some areas, so its not just about snow, the wind is going to make it feel a lot colder).

I would still let my DC go. My only cocern would be for my one with asthma so would check beforehand with asthma nurse and follow their recommendation. Otherwise, actual risk is probably still very low and if it becomes too arduous or they are too cold for safety, the organisers will doubtless cut it short. At bronze level (at our school), parent volunteers had to meet them at every stopping point with water so very little opportunity for groups to go missing or have a mishap. Each group also has to have a mobile for emergencies, stashed away with the first aid kit. They should also have a thick plastic bivvy bag or emergency shelter as part of the group kit. Not carrying tents should cut the rucksack weight down too, which is a big boost and will enable them to kerp their walking pace up.

The bronze practice is designed to get the group out there, working together and test things out....there is scope to cut the route down or finish early if needed. Having the right kit can make all the difference to how much they enjoy it though. Thermals would be great, but they will probably be very warm when walking....so a ski jacket needs to have ventilation or zips to undo. Plenty of thin layers topped by a fleece and a breathable waterproof is usually best. And waterproof trousers would help against the wind. As well as a hat, maybe a ski balaclava or fleecy neck wrap thing to prevent earache. Spare socks in case they get wet feet and an extra pair of thick gloves as insurance in case one gets lost or left behind at a stopping point. They might cut down rest breaks to stop themselves getting cold so pack very high energy snacks that are easy to eat on the go. A few interesting novelty
or favourite items in the lunch keeps their spirits up 😁. Navigation might be trickier with snow on the ground, but all in all, it should be a bonding experience and they are likely to find the real expedition easier if they have really tested themselves on the practice. At our school we had a text or two per day from the organisers to let us know how it was going so that helps too.

They'll be fine.

They're not alone, they're supervised (remotely, but they'll be closer in this type of weather).

I'm a DofE Leader & we try not to kill our participants - the paperwork is fecking horrendous & it means you have to go to the Palace so HRH can punch you on the nose.

If they're worried, they'll cancel - if they don't, rest assured they're confident all will be well & will be out on the ground with the kids too.

Just heard my dd camp is cancelled, you might be lucky and it cancelled.

@MaisyPops How would they call an emergency number as we were told at our info meeting for bronze that they will have to spend a day in isolation when they get back if they take a phone with them. Just interested to know how it works for when dd goes

I'd be worried too op. I'm sure the leaders know what they are doing but wouldn't stop me worrying. I always think of that child who drowned in freezing water that time on similar trip as leader told them to cross.

I think all you can do is ask to see risk assessment. Meet with the leader and hopefully you'll be reassured.

If she goes, make sure she has lots of thermals!

My daughters d of e practise this weekend was cancelled due to the weather conditions, were in Kent and it's not terribly snowy. I'd double check it's still on if I were you but saying that it will warm up a tad at the weekend 👍🏻

DP is training new military recruits and all outdoor training and camping has been cancelled...

re the emergency number - I imagine the group leader has a phone, and probably a decent one rather than a power-guzzling brick which will last five minutes in those conditions even if there is reception.

point is to stop kids phone gazing. These trips were done years before there were phones.

more an issue is if they need road transport to start the trip.

Many years ago (aged 15) I did my Duke of Ed Bronze expedition on touring skis and camping on snow! One of the best experiences of my life

Did my ten tors on Dartmoor and they had to send a search part after us.

Your right to questions. It shouldnt be stopped for snow it will be dependant on visibility and temperture.