Would you pay £20k for a year in Sydney?

[DilemmaDame]

Not an AIBU but a WWYD.

Have NC’d for this as very outing.

No kids (and don't want any)

29 and 31

Married

One of us has a City-type job; one of us has a media-type job.

Own two properties in London: one flat (rented to long-term tenant) and one house (would rent out if accepted posting)

Together currently earn £165,000

Spouse with City-type job has been offered 12 – 24 month posting to Sydney with right of return to UK (would slot back into same role / position / team).

Should be good career-wise (expanding network, new work, new challenges, fresh environment)

Company would cover both spouses’ flights (at start and end of posting), shipping allowance for personal possessions, apartment for 2 weeks while a rental is sorted out, but no other benefits / perks.

The catch is that spouse with City-type job would need to accept a drop in salary (£20k p.a.) for duration of stay in Sydney.

Mortgages back in UK can still be covered easily, and there would still be plenty to live on and to enjoy a nice lifestyle with, but £20k is a huge sum of money.

If you were me / us, WWYD?

You should go of course, you'll have a great time. My only caveat would be that you might love it and want to stay. I emigrated with no job or salary package (to Perth) and absolutely love it. As for the money, you will be able to have a lovely lifestyle, although I do warn you that its very hard to make a direct comparison with costs as I find they vary widely from country to country. When we first moved we found Australia extremely expensive, but once we started earning Oz salaries and stopped converting the costs of everything back to UKP we found we were much better off. Although thankfully house prices aren't insane here like they are in Sydney, but on your wages you'll be able to afford something fantastic.

Also, please don't listen to Outymcoutfaces ridiculous classist ramblings. Australians are, in general, a warm and friendly lot, we have found them incredibly generous and easy to make friends with. And describing it has a warmer smaller less cultured London somewhat misses the point. I'm not a huge fan of Sydney myself, and I loved living in London, but there is a bit more to it than that, and if you enjoy sunshine you will love it.

Go. Sydney's a fab city not biased at all. The North Shore is the nicest place to live, IMO.

Compared with London, it's much sunnier, cleaner, less busy. Plus it has the Harbour, which the Thames simply cannot compete with. Obviously, it has less in the way of "old" buildings, and the museums etc. don't compare with London, but there's still plenty to do and the weather facilitates that.

I definitely wouldn’t as I couldn’t stand Sydney, but if you think you may like it, then go.

It's just a warmer, smaller version of London full of a ruder, less cultured version of the kinds of people you tend to find in London. I really don't see the point

It’s OK, we don’t see the point of you either.

Given you are sorted for housing in London, I’d grab the opportunity with both hands. Sydney is truly the polar opposite lifestyle wise, the weather opens up oodles of opportunities. Assume that you won’t be doing any saving though if you want to rent very centrally (I would).

@Argeles, may I ask why you don’t like Sydney? I loved it but it was over twenty years ago since I lived there for a short while. It’s interesting hearing people’s different views.

I wouldn’t and I’m saying that as someone who is currently living temporarily the USA following a job move.

International moves are really, really expensive. Our relocation packages covered moving costs, rent, car hire, flights home, health insurance and an uplift in salary and protection of U.K. holiday allowance and it still cost us money.

We absolutely wouldn’t have done it for a drop in salary (and we really love it here)

Apart from anything else cost of living in Sydney is much higher than the U.K., your costs will be more on less money.

Moving countries and cultures even for a little while is hard. Sunshine and access to the beach isn’t a panacea you might think.

Personally I would never pick Sydney over London but if it appeals to you then do it. You have nothing to lose and a whole raft of experiences to gain.

@Feodora

I much preferred Melbourne to Sydney. I found the people of Melbourne to be more friendly, and the place to be cleaner, and feel a lot safer. I found it more cultured and interesting there too. This was about 10 years ago. I’m a born and bred Londoner, so used to the perception of crime etc, but I just didn’t ‘click’ with Sydney.

My DH and I were there for 2 weeks, and had to call the police on one occasion as a licensed taxi driver was trying to extort more money out of us, and ordered us out of his taxi on the side of a motorway where he began threatening us with violence. Thankfully the police tracked us down and were fabulous.

We also witnessed a few drunken racist hooligans barging into people on purpose before yelling racial abuse at them and trying to start fights - and this was in the daytime.

We also saw some men openly dealing drugs in the street, and another man urinating on a train.

I must say that having travelled to several areas of Australia, I found it in general to not live up to the expectations that I had of the country. I know that I’m in the minority for holding that opinion, but I just didn’t get what all the fuss is about.

1. Is spouse being relocated by current employer? if so they probably could argue to stay on same salary / be paid equivalent to cost of living in new city.

2. is other spouse going to be able to get a visa to work?

3. if so, how have they calculated the equivalent wage as its not just about doing a currency sum - the role they have may be paid a lower salary over there so that should be considered.

4. would there be costs for other spouse to get working permit? Those can be quite high

5. have you looked at where you would live and what the rent is over there? For example I have friends in a duplex in a suburb quite far outside the city and their rent is ASTRONOMICAL - i understand that is a typical thing in Sydney.

To those wondering about the spiders and/or other beasties.

I have lived in Sydney for three years, on the North Shore in an apartment that is also around three years old.

We have seen in our apartment:

• x2 huntsman spiders. It was raining / cold at the time so presume they were seeking shelter.
• Several but not an outstanding large number of cockroaches. Most of them come in via the large sliding door when it's open, as we don't have fly screens. Our strata also sprays and bombs yearly and that seems to help. We also so a small amount of preventive bombing/spraying when we remember.

Of course being nearer water or in an older building may have some impact on the number of crawling beasts.

So they want you to move to Australia and take a pay cut so your package matches that of locals?

You have to be kidding me?

They want you to move for their benefit and for you to take a pay cut is something I would walk out of the room. It's a year and for a big company relocating a family it's a small amount.

Be very careful with your contract. When you are hired as a local are you going to have flights home paid for? What happens if they decide to terminate your employment?

Bottom line is the contract needs to be properly looked at so you are not left short. They also need to fully explain how this transfer will benefit his career. It should be a forgone conclusion that upon return promotion to the next level is certain.

Argeles Were you in Western Sydney? Because that sounds very out of the norm for the rest of Sydney, especially within the short space of a couple of weeks...

I would go. Why not?

But - there are a few things to consider about Sydney and Australia you will need to think about.

You absolutely will not find a place to rent in 2 weeks in Sydney, you'll need to line stuff up before if you can. The rental market is tight, particularly for the more desirable areas. You do not want to live too far out.

Consider carefully where you want to live. Sydney is sprawling with some areas very culturally, and socially divided in parts. Not every suburb has a beach ( as some one said up thread).

Parts of Sydney have rubbish public transport, and parts don't. This could whomp you with a long commute by car. Then you'll need a car. Distances are bigger here.

I'm not sure if or how expats access Medicare here, but I would think the move should include health insurance. This can be expensive.

From reading Mumsnet - the cost of living is more expensive for daily stuff.You'll also need to either buy furniture or find a rare furnished rental in a decent area. That's an additional outlay.

Otherwise - go for it, but pick an area wisely. If I were you - I'd skip the inner city and aim for somewhere in the Northern Beaches or on the North Shore.

The Northern beaches will give you a very different experience as Brits from life in the UK. Living close to

Suburbs include - Manly, Manly Vale, Fairlight, Balgowlah, Freshwater, Dee Why, also Clontarf, and Seaforth. Further up the beaches , but with dodgy public transport (nice places to live though) Avalon, Newport, Clairville, Mona Vale, Collaroy, Narrabeen, Whale Beach,Palm Beach( long way up).
North Shore - Neutral Bay, Cremorne,Cremorne Point, Mosman, Kirribilli, McMahons Point, Lane cove, Longueville.

have fun.

• typos - sorry. Live near the water if you can find a place

We did a 2 year secondment from London to Sydney 3 years ago and had the same questions. We’re still here 3 years later and loving it. We moved with 1 trailing spouse and 2 kids. Really tossed up at the time whether it was worth removing the children from their school, friends and family for a 2 year period and decided on balance to go for it.

Need to factor in that you will be required to pay superannuation out of your salary (think 9%) which is compulsory. Think you will also be taxed full whack on it when you return to the UK and take it back with you. I had a similar salary at the time but we also had a rental allowance on top - with 2 children and the cost of renting/schools (you have to pay for education in public schools if on a visa) and the general cost of living we felt worse off than London. You won't have as many outgoings as us though as ours were massively pushed up by kids and we went over our rental allowance by choosing an amazing house in the most expensive suburb so we didn't help ourselves!

Also think about annual leave – the annual leave in Aus is generally much lower (usually around 20 days per year where as in London not unusual to have upto 30 days). Tax on the higher rate about the same as the UK – there is a salary calculator which is helpful. If you’re on a temp visa then you won’t have to pay tax in Aus on any rental income from the UK though you will still have to complete a UK tax form.

Health insurance – you will be eligible for Medicare here and so no need for private health insurance unless it is a condition of your visa. I still struggle with not getting health insurance as part of my package with my employer, such a standard perk in the UK.

2 weeks to find a rental is absolutely fine as long as you have all your documents/applications ready and you’re prepared to accept that in a short time frame your choices will be limited. I would maybe ask if the company will help with a relocation agent.

Yes there are differences between the 2 cities but we love both for different reasons. I don’t find Australian’s rude at all. You get rude people everywhere anyway. The work that I do I’ve found that I’m actually doing more interesting/cutting edge work here and I love it.

I would also think longer term and what your options are at the end of the secondment in case you wanted to stay longer and whether your visa options permit that. The government is massively overhauling visa streams and PR options.

I would say go for it.

reinforcing @commanderdaisy You absolutely will not find a place to rent in 2 weeks in Sydney from my experience there was often alot of people wanting an apartment and a bidding war is not unusual (that was 10 years ago in eastern suburbs but I presume it is still similar now)

Oh yes and I second cockroaches - they are EVERYWHERE and a general part of Sydney life so you need to get over that one pretty quickly. We didn't see many spiders at all in our first house but now we've moved out and have a garden we see heaps but we have the house sprayed so that generally keeps them to the confines of the garden where we just leave them be. Oh and the only snake we've seen in 3 years is in my father's back garden when we came back to the UK for a visit!!!!

I haven't seen any of that behaviour in many years spent in Sydney argeles, even in western Sydney, superbeagle! The only antisocial behaviour I've seen has been in Canberra (drunks) and on the Sunshine Coast. I wouldn't take any notice of those experiences, OP.

You'll be earning a decent amount, and don't even have to live in city Central. I've found transport links to be v good, and much cheaper than in london! You don't need a garden or large house, which cuts costs again. It's a great opportunity.

Expatmatt - we recently found somewhere within 3 days and moved within 2 weeks (they wanted us to move earlier but we couldn't).

Also when we first arrived we found somewhere within 4 days of landing and moved within 2 weeks. So it can be done.

You have to do your research though before you arrive, have an idea of what areas you want to look at, what you're looking for, get all your documents, applications and references ready and be prepared to be flexible. Clearly if you're holding out for your perfect rental in an ideal street/ticks all the boxes then you might struggle.

Echo this Historically, we feel it is much safer here than London - for us and our children. We are more than aware of the rife drug issues but the situation in London with gangs/violence/drugs for us with children was much worse. We are in a suburb 15 mins from the city and our children play out in the street with our neighbours and it feels like we could be hours away from a major city - something we never felt in London.

@Paperplain that's good then but the research was a great idea !!

Really Argeles you saw all those antisocial things in 2 weeks?? I lived in Sydney for over 10 years and never saw any of that. In fact it is a safe, friendly, easy to live in city in my experience.

@Paperplain that's good then but the research was a great idea !!

Also to second PP please make sure you research everything as their salaries were always stated as "plus superannuation" so you need to understand your own take home pay.
You also cant take out the superannuation you pay into - I have tried, I have $15k in australia - I guess i will be glad when I retire!

Also agree that @Argeles is talking nonsense. I lived in sydney for years, still have many friends there and visit once a year and this has never been my experience!

To the cockroaches - yes but they are not the same as the small "infestation" ones and if you have a can of Mortein around they are soon taken care of. The huntsman spiders can be unnerving in size but generally dont run around much and keep to themselves and as a bonus they eat mosquitos. I have never known anyone in the city have to deal with anything more scary than those.
Honestly I love it there and would go back in a heartbeat but am settled elsewhere now. get all the ducks in a row and take a chance. You prob wont leave!

If you're sure you can afford it go for it - do the numbers - get on an expat site.

The rents is Sydney are the worse in the world - so for a 2 bedroomed small place on lower north shore (i.e. easy commuting) you'd be looking at $650pw and $850 pw for 2 bed house. The package you're being offered is unreasonably small re rental allowance - most city firms offer minim 6mths rental free