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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that the striking lecturers are hurting the wrong people?

156 replies

StrikeStrikeStrike · 26/02/2018 19:17

So this morning I turned up to an important Lab, a Lab which is integral to an assessment. After a 30 minute wait it was confirmed the Lecturer was on strike and we were asked to leave.

While I understand the reasons for the strike, I can't help but feel angry. I understand they want to cause maximum disruption but a heads up would've been nice (fellow students on other courses have been given advance notice).

I am expected to go into University tomorrow for the second part of this Lab which forms part of our assessment. I'm expected to go in even though the chances of this Lecturer being on strike again are high. However, the department will not confirm the Lab as cancelled until 15 minutes after the start time.

Some of my fellow course members are choosing to stay home as they don't want the hassle of walking through the snow to a (probably non-existent) 9am Lab. Others are planning to attend anyway on principle.

I am unsure. I'm not sure I want to take the risk of not turning up if the Lab goes ahead. It is part of our assessment.

But, for me attending a 9am Lab means getting up at 6:30, getting the kids ready for school, all of us leaving the house by 7:15, catching a train (which cost £10), and finally a 30 minute walk. And tomorrow I could potentially be doing all that in the snow. Would you go?

AIBU to ask for a partial refund of my fees? The University are withholding the pay of staff who strike. Why should they (the University) profit?

OP posts:
AutumnMadness · 28/02/2018 11:23

Hueandcry, you really are flogging a dead horse. Why? Why are you trying to guilt-trip us by saying that payroll staff who are in the USS are altruistically sacrificing their right to strike and their own right for a secure decent pension so we can get paid today? We do not want them to sacrifice anything. We want them to defend their right to a secure pension with the rest of us.

We say that ALL staff who are in the USS should be on strike today. This is what we voted for as a union. We are NOT crossing picket lines. We must be united. This is how a union works. Sod the payroll. Let the management sort it out.

myrtleWilson · 28/02/2018 11:24

Yep - massive increase in union membership seen at DH's institution too and to reiterate strike action supported by SU. I'll ask again Hue - what steps has your DC taken to get support at the moment?

KatherinaMinola · 28/02/2018 11:25

If they’re over Grade 5, in the USS scheme and in the union, then they should be on strike

Yes, this. The whole point of striking is to cause disruption. Payroll would still need to be done or employer would be in breach of contract. IME what the employer would do is bring in temps - at extra cost (and therefore extra disruption).

This is how striking achieves its aims Smile

SnowOnTheRoses · 28/02/2018 11:25

If they are in the USS but believe that they are doing their colleagues a favour by going to work during industrial action, then they are misguided. If they are doing it because they are under management pressure then they need more confidence in their right to strike, which they can draw from the support of their union. They can make contact with others very easily by approaching any picket line (where they will be welcomed with open arms and appreciation), or of course via multiple social media or online contact methods. If they aren't in the union, I'd suggest they join asap, especially if, as you imply, wider social welfare is one of the primary sources of motivation in their working life.

myrtleWilson · 28/02/2018 11:26

Out of interest Hue how many Grade 5 in the USS scheme and in the union payroll staff are you aware of that are not striking?

SoupyNorman · 28/02/2018 11:27

HueandCry’s scenario is almost certainly imaginary, let’s be frank.

MrsJoshDun · 28/02/2018 11:29

I just left industry very recently to be a full time, permanent uni lecturer. I took A substantial pay cut for this job. I’m actually in the TPS scheme so not striking but pension is near enough the same as previous pension.

If I’d had a worse pension as well I would not have taken the job. And this will be the reality if pension cuts go ahead. Universities won’t get the best candidates applying for posts.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 28/02/2018 11:30

And their attitude is what makes it possible to remove workers rights without anyone standing up and protesting.

Hueandcry · 28/02/2018 11:30

I'm not needling anyone just stating my point of view regarding the strike action. I do not support it. I am not the appropriate grade or union so i do not need to support it. The point of the thread was that the action is hurting the wrong people & i support that point if view bith for myself & my dc. Thank you Myrtle I am encouraging my dc to seek the appropriate support although I believe some of those that could provide it are taking strike action

StealthPolarBear · 28/02/2018 11:32

Hue and cry of course people would be unhappy if they didn't get paid. Brr they'd complain to the university, not to the individual staff on strike

CuriousaboutSamphire · 28/02/2018 11:33

You obviously are needling people, look at the responses you have had!

It is nice for you that you don't support strike action - would that be all strike actions by anyone, for any reason?

Fortunately for workers across many industries many people will strike, to dissent against many attempts to further reduce worker's rights.

Hueandcry · 28/02/2018 11:33

I'm not going to out myself by responding to your question but I can guarantee that nothing I have posted is imaginary. I do admire your single mindedness to be able to support your cause without a thought for the effects on others such as myself & my dc

Hueandcry · 28/02/2018 11:34

I'm leaving now, not flouncing, as this thread is really upsetting me. Good luck

titchy · 28/02/2018 11:37

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

AutumnMadness · 28/02/2018 11:37

Hueandcry, sorry, but you do have a very individualist "I'm all right, Jack" attitude. As long as you are ok, you don't seem to give two hoots about what happens to others. You do know that you are not the only one who has a DC with special needs in higher education, right? That lecturers are people too as opposed to some sort of alien robots and that some of them also have children with special needs who are in higher education?

TerfyMcTerface · 28/02/2018 11:38

When your DC is in the workplace, will you support their employer's right to treat them however they like? To hack away at their pay and pension? Did you go to the bother of having and raising them to be fodder for greedy employers? Think about what you are supporting here.

Mogleflop · 28/02/2018 11:38

This reply has been deleted

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myrtleWilson · 28/02/2018 11:40

Am not sure why the thread is upsetting you Hue - you were needling and creating hypothetical derails.

That said - I hope your DC can be reassured - although I take issue with your comment that those able to give the reassurance are on strike - this just isn't true. Student Union officers aren't on strike, university staff are available when not striking, the University management will have put in place systems whereby students can get advice/updates. If your DC is not accessing them you need to support them to do this.

Xmasbaby11 · 28/02/2018 11:40

It was a tough decision to go on strike, and of course I feel bad for my students. The strike is for the greater good. I wouldnt be doing it otherwise. I will lose a lot of my income this month and next month, and we will have to cut back on things. It's not a decision taken lightly.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 28/02/2018 11:40

But nobody is doing anything to you and your DC. The strike is not aimed at anyone other than USS.

You cannot ask people not to fight for their own rights because it might upset someone else. Like many other people you and your dc are not the most important things in the lives of many lecturing staff right now!

SoupyNorman · 28/02/2018 11:41

Cheerio then.

AutumnMadness · 28/02/2018 11:44

TerfyMcTerface, spot on! This is not just about the lecturers. This is about everyone in the country having the right to strike for a decent wage, pension and working conditions. This is about our country not sliding into a Dickensian dark age.

InUCUOnStrike · 28/02/2018 12:42

Do people remember the scene in The Office where the temp talks about jumping the queue at a theme park and says 'why should I wait?' Tim replies: 'Why should you. Why should you'.

I sense a little bit of that attitude here among the unsympathetic: why should you care when your own conditions are poor? Or, why should you care when we could have made better life choices in the first place?

For a start, the private sector isn't a fair comparison. Most universities are here for the very long-term and can plan for the very long-term - rather than fearing being competed out of existence by a new start-up. Those who chose to work in them hoped to benefit from these long time-horizons, rather than being marked to market.

I recognise that there's a wider problem with pensions provision (which is why people tend to invest in property, which generates its own inequality issues). If you don't have the option of a reasonable pension in your sector then why should anyone else have one?

However, academics don't get private sector type benefits commensurate with skills and ability - such as higher pay, for a start, which helps with accessing a better mortgage; bonuses during good years; or subsidised benefits like private health care.

My partner and I recently moved institutions because of redundancies in our old institution. We now both pay a fortune in commuting, overnight accommodation and additional childcare to make it work, so our standard of living is not great. I'm 41 and generally paid as many Ks as my years. This may seem good compared with 'most of British society' - but I'm highly-skilled and work hard and long hours, and wouldn't have expected that so long as I'm paid more than the average I should be grateful. My pension is predicted to fall from £18k to £11k; I won't be able to keep myself on that.

During my early 30s, when on temporary contracts, when I thought I probably should move sector because it was so ghastly, I kept reminding myself that I just had to hold on and that my patience and hard work would eventually be rewarded - and that in this regard I was more long-term in my thinking than many of my friends in the private sector.

Now, some years later, while I have some job security and some good conditions, I find much of my work fulfilling but nevertheless think I made the wrong career choice. I did have other options.

I'm very sorry for students who are stressed. We are human beings and tend to like our students. At my institution, they have had very many reassuring messages from staff at every level, and impact on them will be minimised. But I don't feel wholly responsible for their anxiety. There is a wider anxiety problem among young people that the university sector cannot solve by itself, and academic staff are not mental health professionals. For those concerned for their DC, I also need to think about my child and her future, both now (we cannot afford activities or holidays, for example) and when I'm elderly and need care.

I'm slightly surprised that this argument is expressed in such moral terms at all. Union-protected jobs tend to have better conditions than a race to the bottom would imply. It is not about the glorious struggle but using reasonable and democratic means to secure reasonable conditions.

Without union effort and many academics' voluntary efforts the unrealistic estimates of the 'deficit' would simply be taken at face value, as fact. I'm not a big fan of the UCU in general, but this action is precisely what unionisation is for. Things can be better - this is not the best of all possible worlds. This is a sector which has done quite well over the past couple of decades and is internationally-competitive.

Of course swathes of the private sector and private sector employees have had it worse. Of course it is hard and life is unfair and I'm aware that many of the traditional professions (e.g. medicine, law) have been stripped of their conditions. But it doesn't reflect some sort of natural order of things to which lazy entitled lecturers are willfully blind and which we must just bow and accept. Indeed, this is why the Criminal Bar Association struck a couple of years ago, and junior doctors too.

OyO · 28/02/2018 13:25

Student here in the final semester of a taught postgrad course.

Unfortunately the strikes have fallen on pretty much the majority of our timetabled seminars and lectures. We do several modules per semester, divided into 6 topics. We will only be taught 2/6 topics this term if the strikes continue.

The dates also coincide with the release of our exam results and, of course, any feedback we may be expecting.

We have no idea what's happening. The support staff are also striking and can't tell us when to expect results or what will happen with the assessments at the end of term. Our lecturers can't tell us either.

We support the lecturers because we wouldn't be where we are without them but telling us to redirect our questions and concerns to the university is a waste of time.

Each email we send is met with a generic 'we will take note of your concerns' type response. Our student union and student support team don't know what to tell us.

Why would the university help us? They have our fees, they will have a whole batch of new students starting next term and there won't be a shortage of applications to join.

I'd like to please ask the lecturers here if they think students have a real chance of claiming back some of their fees?

CuriousaboutSamphire · 28/02/2018 13:31

*'we will take note of your concerns' The point would be to drown them in your concerns. To let them know you support the lecturers and want to know how the university is going to make this right with its student body.

Keep writing, keep asking. Tell the SU they need to ask too.

It is up to the University to put procedures in place. That's why they pay their execs those large salaries - make them earn every penny.

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