To ask If your DC think going to university is worth it anymore?

[WhatwouldLyndaSnelldo]

DD is a few years off making this decision so I'm curious to hear if your DC has recently graduated (last few years), are currently at university or planning to go: is it essential for the career they want. Is the "life experience" they have there worth it?

sorry can't bring myself to call it uni

My youngest entered the job market last summer after completing his level 3 Ict. Ideally he then wanted a level 4 apprentership but all the level 4’s were being tKen by graduates who couldn’t get graduate jobs as they lacked the magic word of experience. In the end he has taken a level 3 apprentership in his field and still faced competition from graduates to get it.

Scottish universities do something similar to the US system when you can study 3 subjects in your first year before specialising down. It’s a 4 year degree though and I think it’s because in Scotland they go to uni at 17?

I did a degree fee paying but not as high as it is now. I had a great time and definitely learned a lot, but outside of the classroom. I managed to scrape a 2:1 but I didn't love the subject and I can't say it has helped me in my career, but then maybe having a degree from a well-respected university got me the attention from the right people, who can say...? I have since gone on to do an MA and that I loved doing, so I am pro further education for sure.
With regards to my DD if she wants to do a degree I would ensure she has some kind of plan for it, as in not just wanting to spend three years partying like her mother and I would totally encourage different forms of training/education so long as she has thought it through.

I think it depends on what they want to do. My DS didn't go and it wouldn't have suited him at all, he did an apprenticeship. My DD is still at school at the moment, but is pretty set on Uni and with what she wants to do it is the best move. If she changes her mind on careers then my advice may change. And with the cost I see it more as paying extra tax once graduated than anything, you only pay 9% on earnings over 21k ( going up to 25k ) and after 30 years whatever is left is written off. The debt isn't the big problem some see it as

What exactly is this 'uni' experience that is so great?

Is it worth going to a non-RG university?

Depends what your child wants to do, a drama degree is not worth it but then architecture, nursing, social work etc is

I think uni experience is great, but so is backpacking. I hope my kids will do both if they wish

The job market has changed drastically in the last decade or so. Most employers now insist on a degree. Sometimes it makes sense, others it's just a degree for the sake of one. I don't agree with it, but that's irrelevant. if nothing else, that's why I will encourage my kids to go to uni. That should help them secure jobs much more easily. Many companies I work for do not even consider applicants who don't have degrees on their cvs, for roles that didn't require them in the past - and which frankly have not changed.

DD is doing drama, because a) she's good at it b) she needs a BA to get a PGCE. She is following DW and I in making sure her profession is portable. She does private TA work to build her CV, while we amuse DGS. Son-out-law meanwhile is working at anything he can while his applications are in progress. He has a very unusual skill set, handy for the zombie apocalypse among other things.

What is private TA work?

Did you go to Uni OP?

before anyone begins to pronounce on "x degree is not worth it" it is usually a good idea to check up employment statistics

humanities subjects are surprisingly good, some STEM subjects actually less so

but also worth remembering that not even the most employment-promising course is going to be any good for you if you can't actually hack it

So it all depends on what your child wants to do. If they need a degree for that job then, yes, they’ll need to go to university.

It doesn’t have to be an RG uni. Too much nonsense is spouted about them (my alma mater isn’t an RG but is in the top five nationally). Rather they should look for the course they need for their career and aim for the best uni they can get in to.

I’d say that uni isn’t suited to everyone, and part of the current problem with higher education is that many former colleges and polytechnics were afforded university status in the rush to push degrees on 18 year olds.

A far better option is now apprenticeships, especially if offered by a big player (such as Dyson or Rolls Royce).

With debt the level it is now is seriously look at alternatives before plumping for a degree. Especially if your child doesn’t really know what they want to do with it. Careers advice need to improve hugely at school level.

My dc are 10 months and still in my belly, so I'm not in any place to comment as circumstances will probably be different for them when they start considering uni. But a lot of my cousins go or have gone.
Personally, it's not a massive amount to pay the debt off each week once you leave. (is it like £1 a week? Not so up to speed on it anymore)
I think university should be for kids who can use the qualification. Media for example. I got into the Brit school to do media. Did it get me anywhere? No. Did I try? Yes. An that was meant to have more opportunities than doing media at uni. You need to be a specific person to do that job. I feel the same way about art and interior. You either have it, or you don't. I think some things can be just learnt in college rather than how much it costs for a year at Uni. It's talent based to me. But the price is definitely so high for something like that.
Say for example. I know someone who went to uni and she has a job in her field as a biomedical scientist. She used it and she's earning good money so it was worth it if that makes sense? But people like my cousin have just gone to get pissed and have their freedom and I think for the amount of debt you're in, (he's already admitted he won't use this qualification) it's ridiculous and pointless going.

2 of my DCs went to Uni, my DSS didn't. It was the best thing ever for my kids but they did go to RG unis and did do well.

The experience has taken them into very well paying careers that they are both excelling at, one was on a Grad scheme, the other just applied for a job she never thought she'd get and this was before she'd even left Uni, and in the space of a few weeks moved across the country, started the job and after over 2 yrs there has moved Cos (was head hunted) and is doing really well.

The whole thing was a wonderful experience for them.

My DS (age 12) wants to do a degree, but thinks getting into debt is 'daft' (his words not mine). He doesn't know yet what he wants to do, but is adamant it will be a degree apprenticeship.

He wants to earn, go to Uni part time and not have any debt.

When I was 16 I wanted to be a lawyer. By the time I finished A Levels I wanted to be an Economics correspondent for the FT. At Uni I wanted to be a fashion buyer for a big name store. By the time I left Uni, I'd been offered a job and training contract with a Big 4 accountancy firm. My point is not very many children know what they want from life at 16, 18, even 21. Having a (Good) degree ensured I kept doors open. Not going to Uni would have closed opportunities for me, and I'm all about keeping all opportunities available for as long as possible.

The University experience gives you the opportunity to start living an adult life with lots of support, and thousands of people in the same boat as you. You need to learn how to budget on a generally meagre amount of money, share living space, cook and clean for yourself. You need to learn how to study independently, read around a subject, manage your workload, hone presentation skills, how to manage your beer . In the grand scheme of things, £9k a year and 3 years out of employment isn't a big ask, but is an enormous privilege. It's not (nor should it be) for everyone, but I will still be encouraging my 2 to attend - at the moment one wants to go to Oxford, and the other to Bristol, so I'll keep encouraging their lofty ambitions , even while young (12 & 10).

twocats £1 a week?! lol 😂

Troodiedoo - yes, I went early 80s - things very different then.

As an academic I'd like to say an unqualified yes. But there are kids I'm teaching that have very little interest really in being in HE, who are not naturally academic, and who will graduate with a relatively poor grade and a lot of debt. Those students seem to attend because it's what their family expected of them, rather than because they necessarily have an interest in the course or have decided on a career for which it will be useful (though I'd argue that any degree is useful in a job hunting sense).

Sometimes the experience of being at uni can be transformational, and students who begin their course from the above position discover that they love the research and writing and course content, but with others it can feel far more transactional: I've paid my money now give me the qualification. I think it's very important that decisions around whether or not to do a degree are driven by the student themselves, really. Otherwise, they might have a brilliant time socially but the debt that they're saddled with really isn't worth it.

@flouncy is it more than that now? 😂 I don't know. I left school in 2012 when we had the talks about it but uni never interested me to pay attention as i knew I'd never go and wasn't academic enough

My DD is 18 and due to go in the autumn. She even has an unconditional offer from a RG Uni, but is really conflicted about whether to go. She's planning to do a humanities degree with no particular career goal in mind as/yet.

Many of her friends feel the same and are either taking a year to think about it (work and save some money) or have actively decided they aren't going to go. All very bright girls, all RG material, but the expense unless they have a specific career in kind (who really does at 18?) is putting them off.

I did deferred entry to uni and worked various jobs (incl. jobs abroad) for a year and I would recommend that as an option to anyone who is unsure what they're doing like I was I did a Humanities subject with no specific career in mind, though I had some ideas, and pursued work experience/volunteering plus Post Grad study afterwards in order to enter my chosen field. For me, uni was worth it as I wouldn't have got onto the Post Grad course without it and therefore would not have the job I have now.

Plus I had an amazing time and still have a great group of friends that I made in the first year. I did notice that the students who had done other things first/were a bit older seemed a lot more focused in general, some of the 18 year olds had obv just gone because their parents expected it.

As pp have stated, students need to know why they want to go and the decision should come from them, not the DPs or the school.

Average earnings remain higher for graduates.
They have a chance to grow up and have fun before they have to enter adulthood fully.
Most half decent careers need a degree. Very few entrepreneurs who made their fortune left with no qualifications/degree.

I was a university lecturer prior to becoming a mum and wouldn't recommend my DC to go to uni. It's very expensive and many students end up in jobs that don't really use their degrees. Universities are more focused on research than teaching, so teaching is frequently outsourced to hourly paid staff on crappy temp contracts. They aren't paid enough to do a good job as teachers, they're usually only paid for class hours so students have no access to teachers for support outside of class. The classes are often cobbled together at the last minute and the teacher's goal is often less about learning and more about keeping the students busy with any old rubbish. The materials are often years out of date because the uni won't pay someone to spend hours updating them and nobody would do it for free. When students complained that what we taught was out of date or useless for getting a job, the official response was that it was an academic course not a vocational one and therefore wasn't aimed at teaching skills that were useful for employment. The ethos seemed to be - get them in the door, get their money, then keep them quiet with a cheap temp teacher and whatever we can pass off as a "course" while our best staff and financial resources are focused on research. In other words, the courses were crap and not worth the money! www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/nov/16/universities-accused-of-importing-sports-direct-model-for-lecturers-pay

twocats It's 9% of your income, once you earn above £21000 (rising to £25000 soon) and is deducted through PAYE unless you're self-employed or live outside the UK. Students are always told not to think of it as a loan, but as a graduate tax.