WWYD- Lending money

[jacks11]

I torn- I feel like if I do then I'm being taken for a mug (and perhaps creating a rod for my own back), if I don't then it will have significant negative impact on DB/SIL and their DC.

For background: I don't have a good relationship with DB and SIL. Complex, but they do have a history of piss-taking (to quite breathtaking levels at time). They have 3 DC. DB works but not well paid, SIL hasn't worked for around 3 years- but has been attending college this year on a course with a view to go onto further qualifications (IF she completes this year).

As part of her funding, SIL gets some of her nursery fees paid for their youngest DC whilst she is at college (elder 2 at school). They have received a bill for this months fees- the college have refused to pay their part as her attendance has been so poor (as is in their conditions). Her absence has not been due to illness, from what I can gather. I'm actually not sure what she has been doing when her DC has been at nursery, not that it's any of my business.

DB did not know she was not attending college apparently- but they have called asking for me to lend the money (several £100's) as if they don't pay, the nursery will not take their DC until the outstanding is paid. They don't have the money, and won't have it any time soon. Without childcare SIL will not be able to continue college.

As I said, I don't have a good relationship with DB or SIL. They have behaved badly in the past. Including not paying back money lent to them previously. This has happened on more than one occasion- so more fool me for not learning the first time, I suppose. On the last occasion, I had reminded them several times- always vague promised but nothing forthcoming, so I gave one last reminder and said I wouldn't be constantly hounding them but if I wasn't repaid then I would not lend them anything in the future. And I have stuck to that to date.

I can easily afford to give them the money, that isn't an issue. I would feel like a mug. I also think this would lead to never ending requests for money- they are both terrible with money.

OTOH, if SIL were to complete the course and did get onto the training course then she would have the opportunity of better paid job with some security- clearly a benefit to their DC.

I have said no, but I'm now getting lots of messages from both of them. There is (small) part of me that feels like I should help, given that I can and given the stakes are quite high.

OTOH, I feel like if I give in now when I've previously said I would never lend money again, then I'm being a mug. I think they're reaping what they've sown as they have taken the piss quite a lot, meaning I don't feel especially inclined to help. Even more so as I think this will then trigger lots of requests for money- no doubt all will be "essentials" because they have spent money on the "non-essentials" on the premise that they will be bailed out. This is what happened in the past (e.g. needing for money for school uniform shoes as SIL had splurged on hair straighteners and haircut in a nice salon, for instance- this was several years ago). In addition, I feel like SIL got herself into this situation by her own stupidity and laziness, so perhaps it's a good thing that she feels the consequences of her own actions.

WWYD? I do feel mean, but on the other hand I don't feel I owe them anything given their previous behaviour. And if I give in this time, where will it end? There will always be another "emergency" or a "disaster' with potentially serious consequences if I don't give them money.

[YorkshireLurker]

Don't give it to them. I am a former CF (although unintentional) but my sister was well paid and living at home at the time so I assumed she would bail me out whenever needed.

So I spent my money on shite and one day she said no - it was a hard lesson but one that I needed! I've been so much better since then even though I had to have some awkward phone calls to credit card companies!!

They need a kick up the backside :)

[justilou1]

There is another option.

You could draw up a legally binding contract and have it signed by a JP, etc. Making it clear that they understand that this is a loan, acknowledging that they also owe you X from previous loans, so the total amount is that they have borrowed is X. (If they have paid any back, make note of it) Then set aside a weekly/fortnightly/monthly schedule of repayments (with interest) and specify how much and when they will pay you back in instalments. Also specify that they agree to repay these instalments regardless of whether or not she finishes the course and moves into better employment. Make it clear on the loan that if repayments are late, then you will seek legal address and they will be responsible for any fees associated with chasing debts.

Pretty sure that they will know that you are no longer an easy touch and it's legally enforceable, if they try anything.

Also, no more loans from this date on.

[Viviennemary]

I'd be quite surprised if any college has this arrangement with students re payment of nursery fees. Because it would be extremely difficult to get students who probably have little or no income to pay fees owing under these circumstances. So big red flag here.

Don't pay the money. And personally I think your SIL is telling you a tall story.

[Snowysky20009]

Don't OP- they need to sort this out themselves not have you bail them out.

[JaneEyre70]

She's never going to pass a course that she's not attending, you're throwing money away. Would they do the same for you?

[mumgointhroughtorture]

Surely if she hasn't been going to college enough to get the funding for childcare then she won't pass the course anyway ?
She shouldn't have put the child in nursery if she wasn't at college .

I think if you do it now , the requests will get more frequent . You need to be clear if you say no , WHY you are saying no . Because they've had chances before to pay you money back they have lent , they havent paid you back and you said you would never lend them again .

Make them take responsible for their own actions and the repercussions it has .

[borntobequiet]

I work in FE. We go to extraordinary lengths to support learners who have difficulties, as we know that in many cases we are the provider of last resort for them. I think this is generally the case, and if the College has given up on your SIL, it's probably for good reason.
If you do decide to lend the money, be aware that you may never get it back, and it may not be used to good effect.

[Thymeout]

I think if you bail her out this time, she's unlikely to have the motivation to make up the work she's missed and she'll start skipping days again so you'll be in exactly the same position next term. You'll be handing over money, either to her or the nursery direct, for no benefit at all. It's just postponing the inevitable.

She's never going to pass this course and get a better job. So even the idea that you're doing it for the dcs isn't valid. Much better for them, in this situation, that their mother gets a job, pays the nursery fees herself and works her way up through promotion than a college-based qualification. She obviously doesn't have the self-discipline to cope with independent study. (Or perhaps the academic ability?) Being a student doesn't suit everyone. She might be a lot happier and more successful in a work environment, learning on the job, with someone keeping her nose to the grindstone.

Hold firm, Op. Long term, you could be doing them all a favour.

[ApproachingATunnel]

I would not lend the money. There is no guarrantee she will attend or finish the course. You would be however absolutely opening door to future sob stories and more requests for money. You would be supporting their poor budgeting and lack of responsibility.
And given the backstory... no way.
Have you even seen that letter yourself, there might be no letter.

[CoffeeOrSleep]

Echoing the others, if she's not been turning up, it's unlikely she'll pass the course anyway.

She's been given an amazing opportunity and thrown it away.

Perhaps a couple of years until her youngest is at school will help her grow up.

[3luckystars]

I would contact the nursery and offer to pay £100 towards it.
I would get the real story from the nursery because your brother and SiL are probably exaggerating the amount.

If you could work out that this is repaid to you by the nursery at the end of term then she has 3 months now to earn the money that is owed.

It’s a difficult situation but if you loan it to this couple directly, Then you won’t get it back and they will look for more. I would try to make an arrangement including the nursery and college that this is a bail out loan from you.

[donquixotedelamancha]

I would feel like a mug. You would be a mug.

so I gave one last reminder and said I wouldn't be constantly hounding them but if I wasn't repaid then I would not lend them anything in the future.

Seriously, do they need to take out adverts saying they don't respect you. Could it be more obvious?

I'm now getting lots of messages from both of them

Apparently, it could. This alone would make me say no.

You should refrain from making moral judgements about why they are in this position, but you should not see it as your problem. Treat them as adults. You would not be helping them OP- you would be harming them by giving them the money after such behaviour; like rewarding a child for being naughty.

If they really are as rude as you make out, I wouldn't be speaking to them at all, but if you continue the relationship start expecting to be treated as an equal.

[YellowMakesMeSmile]

I'd usually advocate helping family but they aren't going to learn anything here if you do. What happens when she doesn't attend the next month etc.

They are adults with children, time to step up and stop playing games with funding etc. Realistically, if she isn't attending college she's not likely to be looking for actual work after is she.

[SundaysFunday]

Could you afford to pay the nursery fees (this time) and say to her if she fails her course you want the money back in full. If she passes the course then the money is a gift.

This is incredibly generous (if you can afford to not see the money again) but it puts you in charge, also may motivate her to complete her course. If it all goes tits up she could never turn around and blame you.

In the future you could always remind them you lent them money to help SIL make something of herself but she didn't, so she has burnt her bridges with you.

[Gemini69]

pay ZILCH... lend them ZILCH.....

[fluffyrobin]

Just say:

"Sorry, I am waiting for the previous loan to be repaid".

Don't enter into any argument just repeat.

[Iluvthe80s]

I would not lend them the money. They are taking the piss out of you! Just say no.

[lorelairoryemily]

I would absolutely not give them the money. They are adults. Their finances are not your problem

[jacks11]

Hello all

I've called them to let them know that I definitely won't be giving the money. I said that it was because I had said I wouldn't do so again after the last time, and that I was sticking to it.

DB has text to say "thanks for nothing, you know what this will mean for us" and SIL has sent a tirade saying she hopes I am "satisfied" with myself, how unfair it is that I am financially ok whilst they are not and I have no idea how awful it is to be skint all the time. How unfair it is that my DC have nicer lives than hers and this was her way of trying to make things better for them but that I have made sure this will never happen.

I've said I'm sorry that things have been hard for them, but she wouldn't be in this situation if she had attended college as she was supposed to and I won't be taking responsibility for any of it. Not heard anything back and don't expect to.... for now.

Just confirmed that I was right with my 1st instinct to say no as they were taking the piss, as usual. Will stick to my guns in future.

[lorelairoryemily]

Well done op. I would reply to sil with a simple fuck off😂 I would t be able to resist!

[Appuskidu]

They sound thoroughly self-absorbed. I think you have done the right thing!

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

Next time omit the word 'sorry' - it gives them hope (or so I have found).

And well done for seeing that through!

Good luck!

[Fluffycloudland77]

I’d block them now.

[Nandocushion]

TBH OP it sounds as though even if you did give them the money, and she did start attending and even finish her training, with the attitude towards responsibility she has at present she's unlikely to be able to keep hold of a job. So I agree with a PP that you would merely be delaying the inevitable if you give them anything. Save your money.

[Nandocushion]

X-post. Well done OP.