To think Ofsted should start monitoring Collective Worship again ...

[WeezKeez]

The law says all pupils in state schools, including community state schools, should have a daily act of "broadly Christian" collective worship, defined as ""reverence or veneration paid to a divine being or power". But Ofsted stopped checking whether schools were actually doing this in 2004, at which point they reckoned 76% of secondary schools weren't compliant.

See here for background info and references: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_Worship_(schools_in_England_and_Wales).

So, on the one hand that's great for the many people who detest the idea of compulsory worship for kids - schools get to hold two fingers up to the Government and ignore the rules without any comeback. But, actually I'm thinking whether it wouldn't be such a bad thing if Ofsted changed their mind, because .....

1. We would get some up to date stats on how many schools are actually breaking/following the law.

1. It would push a lot more people into making the (strong) case for the law to be changed so that school worship becomes optional rather than compulsory. At the moment, whenever changes are debated, parliamentarians say "the numbers of parents who opt children out are so low that most parents must be happy with the law as it is" ... ignoring the fact that parents don't need to opt their kids out if their school isn't following the law in the first place.

1. In schools that do provide regular collective worship it would give some protection by verifying that they are following the regulations and government guidance properly e.g. that they are taking into account the family backgrounds of the pupils, or that the worship "reflects the broad traditions of Christian belief" rather than some narrow/niche/denominational interpretation.

Thoughts?

Loads of kids at DCs school opt out. About 32 at last count out of a school of around 170

None of the last three schools I’ve worked at did any of this.
Re opting out, only 4 chn I’ve come across in 10+ Years have opted out (and of xmas activity, nativity, easter etc) who were jehovahs witnesses. Had one muslim girl who’s parents asked if she could skip RE entirely because he didn’t want her ‘understanding’ other faiths. He also asked for her to be left out of Literacy activities that involved and English or American texts. Off topic but he removed her for home schooling and I always think and worry about her.
Anyway... yanbu.

Dd's (secondary) school only has assembly once a week so aren't doing it. I know it could be argued that it could be added to registration or something but it definitely isn't.

At primary they had a moment of contemplation (still not daily) where they could say amen at they end if they wished.

Neighboring borough has exemption but I think from broadly Christian part not the daily bit.

Neighboring borough has exemption but I think from broadly Christian part not the daily bit

Yes, schools can apply for a "determination" that they can replace the broadly Christian worship with another type of worship, either for all pupils or groups of them, but they can't get permission to replace it with no worship at all.

Dd's (secondary) school only has assembly once a week so aren't doing it

Do they have a policy on it? A few years ago most of the community schools in my area had a policy on their website, which tried to make their collective worship sound as inclusive as they possibly could, but now they all seem to have taken them off (probably around the time they all became academies!)

Have had a good look on website and no policy. Also spoke to dd aboit the contebt if weekly assembly.

Did discover that in Ofsted report pre 2004 changes the school was planning to work towards a daily act of collective worship. After 16 years they have a weekly assembly with no worship in

None of schools I went to open days for (I didn't visit church schools) had daily assemblies.

Also our SACRE currently has no guidelines for acts of collective worship (minutes mention expecting a change in law that didn't happen) or a current list of schools that have been granted a determination (minutes say the whereabouts of a list kept previously is unknown ).

In principle I do think laws should either be enforced or removed. It is daft to have the daily worship requirement still in place, but so widely ignored. Personally I don't think it should exist.

That said, your suggestion is totally unrealistic. Ofsted don't really inspect schools anymore. They send a couple of people for a day and a half, every 5-8 years. They rely entirely on exam results and the schools self assessment. They have no interest in investigating any details of they way the school runs, let alone such a minor issue.

Really pleased dd1's school doesn't adhere to this. She has a weekly assembly for her year group (@400) three is no physical capacity in the school to have whole school assemblies, let alone daily worship ( even in the individual year groups.

there is no physical capacity in the school to have whole school assemblies, let alone daily worship ( even in the individual year groups).

Well if all the teachers were on board there's no reason why it couldn't be done in form groups. That's what happens in many faith schools (the one I went to had prayers at the beginning and end of every lesson!)

But of course the teachers can't be made to do that.

I do wonder what would happen if an evangelical teacher in an otherwise non-compliant community school unilaterally decided they would do prayers in form-time! They would have the law on their side (but maybe a rebellion on their hands).

I would much prefer a teacher to be on board and enthusiastic about their subject than planning daily religious worship.

In my experience the number of people with a religious affiliation in the teaching ( and most professions) is significantly lower than previously and many schools would struggle to get staff on board. Why would teachers teach something they believe untrue?

I think the law is something that should be changed irrespective of whether most schools adhere to it or not. My LOs school is a ‘secular’ school, but they do practice daily worship. I think it’s ridiculous, if that’s what you want for your kids, send them to a church school or worship with them at home! Not everyone is religious or Christian. I also think it’s wrong that they only teach the children about Christianity in RE. They also teach it as a fact and not people who are Christian believe XYZ. I don’t want to ask to have my daughter removed from group worship as she is already a shy, self conscious child, but I also don’t want them filling her head full of this stuff at such a young age!

I also forgot to mention the only time they mention another religion in RE is when Divali comes round and they make lanterns. No mention of other major religions like Judaism or Islam at all! Such a blinkered approach is unacceptable in this day and age!

It is optional.

I agree that the rule should be scrapped, with a process in place for schools that wish to retain either a daily or weekly act of collective worship (and the ability for students to opt out of this).

I don't think getting Ofsted to monitor it is particularly helpful, though.

NewYearNewMe18: "It is optional"

No it isn't, not really. A parent can write to a school to say they want their child to be withdrawn, but it's pretty rare and not hard to see why people don't do it more often - it's very unpleasant for young children to be actively withdrawn from any activity at school - much easier just to let them go along with it and then maybe explain why you don't agree with it later, or else just accept it as a normal part of school that needs to be endured.

And children can't opt themselves out of it either, until they're in 6th form.

YABVU. The law should be removed not reinforced. Schools are for education not indoctrination, it would be madness to start regressing to the middle ages.

Most schools ignore this rule because its redundant. Lets move upwards, not backwards.

Yes @Julie8008, but as I said at the start it's not going to be removed while parliamentarians can pretend that teachers and parents aren't up in arms about it.

Whenever somebody raises it as an issue - not just on the national stage but at a local level at SACREs and on Governing Bodies - everyone says "oh, that's not important because people can opt out, and by the way hardly anyone does, so we're right and you're wrong".

In the meantime, bodies such as the National Governors Association and the United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child are united in condemning it ... but it hardly gets any press coverage.

I agree that the law on this has fallen into disrepute and it is better to scrap it or enforce it. My feeling is that there should still be school assemblies, even if not of a religious nature. Schools can raise ideas, discuss issues and even have an opportunity for reminders and notices with them.