AIBU to ask why *some* people are so obsessed with judging people by their class

[ConfusedWife1234]

Since I joined mumsnet I noticed that are a lot of threads about social class on the AIBU board. Do not get me wrong. I do think social class is a fascinating topic to talk about. I really love to learn about other people’s social class and how they live in that social class BUT I notice some people are a bit judgemental about social class in a way, like always wishing to find out which social class is the best... and I do not understand this. Don‘t we need all social classes in a society?

I might be very wrong though and maybe this is just how I read it but not what you meant to say.

There's always judgy people on literally any topic though. It's usually the minority

Well... maybe... but then I think social class is a very stupid topic to judge because we do not really choose which class we are born into, do we?

Of course people sometimes do change their class but I do not think this happens very often.

like always wishing to find out which social class is the best... and I do not understand this. Don‘t we need all social classes in a society?

I don't think you understand the concept of social class. If by 'needing all social classes' you mean, 'does a society need people who do low-level manual as well as professional jobs?' then, yes, of course.

But social class, especially in terms of the way it features on Mn threads, is as much a tissue of tribal codes of belonging, class markers and shibboleths as about income and what you do for a living. We certainly don't 'need' a set of distinctions according to what word we use for our evening meal, or what we say when someone says something we don't hear.

Yes. That is what I wanted to say. A society needs all kind of people working in all kinds of jobs... and why does it really matter how people call their supper. Does it make you a better or worse person? Maybe this is something I as somebody who is not a Brit does not get but why not let them call it as they please and just embrace the fact there are different words?

Isn't it a bit like having a tribe?

You kind of 'know' your people and where you fit in.

I'm not sure I fit into a social class, don't really 'fit' anywhere. Don't have a dog either so can't even go down that route.

People like to label things. But I think it&s mostly knowing where they belong.

Ime it's almost exclusive to insecure social climbers. And the culprits are nearly always wannabe mc. They have the house, the job and the car, but know deep down that they aren't the same as those from generations of mc. And rather than being perfectly happy with who they are, and realising nobody actually gives a fuck, they think the difference needs to be covered up. And the only way they can think of doing so is to put down other social classes.

I find it quite amusing myself. It also makes it really easy to identify who is genuinely low class in all the ways that do matter.

And agree that we need all people.

No point having 100 architects designing beautiful buildings but then having no builders to actually build them!

I'm not from this country either, but I've lived here long enough to understand something of the class system -- especially as I'm the daughter of a binman who first moved to this country to go to Oxford, which has made me fairly class-fluid.

How long have you lived here, and are you sure your home country does not have a class system? It's not unique to this country, and it's far more than job, income and language differences. Look at the current thread on having a baby at 14 -- the responses on there, and the assumptions that fuel them, are to a large extent determined by the social class of the posters.

We need people doing all sorts of different jobs (hospital cleaners are just as important as nurses and surgeons for example, if we want patients to thrive, which often seems to get forgotten IMO) but we don’t need people who think they have the right to look down on others due to the incidental fact of the family they were born into. I think there is a big problem with the wealthy believing they are rich because they deserve to be on merit, and this is often not the case.

Rain If course my home country does have a class system and often it is really easy to guess a person social class (based on their surname, their accent, their way of dress and so on) but i do not think that there is so much judging the other person based on their social class... Well of course there are some people who do judge and do judge a lot and some are really mean... but it is not so much a topic on message boards because people just accept social class as a fact of life. It is there like gender, but why judge?

I do not want to say we are better, because in my country there are lots of judgemental people but they choose other things to judge people. They for example often judge people based on physical beauty which is not any better.

Queen You could identify as a member of the tribe of mothers. lol

Because people are on the whole insecure sheep who need to lump people into easily digestable chunks.
I've had plenty of experience of this shite with people being shocked at 'how nicely i speak' given how i look. Actually confounds gormless twats people.
There are cunts in all classes of people, working class, middle class and paedo class upper.
IMO it is the very insecure or wannabe Becky Sharpes who fuss and worry about class.

Op on the whole that's how it is here for the upper class, the upper middle class and the working class. And in many cases how it is for the rest of the middle class.

But there are a group, who on the whole tend to be lower mc social climbers who do the judging.

See it as yet another way, like speech or appearance to identify class. If someone is shrieking about council estates, or poor people, it's an obvious way to recognise that they are wannabe middle class.

I wouldn't go on clothes over here. Someone in worn, scruffy mismatched clothes could be either old money landed gentry or desperately poor at first glance, unless you know exactly what to look for.

I think the obsession with class is a very British (or maybe just English - none of the Scottish people I know care and I don't really know any Welsh). I find it really weird.

Granny Grisle shock How do you look then? BTW I think it is also a bit prejudiced to call all upperclass p...

rain You said there were different things people from different classes said when they did not hear what somebody just said. Have been thinking about this and only came up with one (pretty classless) thing to say What did you just say?
What would be the more posh alternative? Milord. What can one do for you? Not really is, it? What would be the more working classy alternative?

I love reading threads about class, they weirdly interest me. I couldn’t give a toss about what someone’s social class is, I like people for who they are not what they are but it’s a fascinating subject.

OP, look up 'U' vs 'non-U'. There are certain terms and expressions which are class shibboleths which mark you out as belonging to one tribe or another.

What you say to someone who made a remark you didn't hear is a classic example, and has given rise to at least one long-running, fiercely-fought Mn thread.

The 'correct' U and UMC response is 'What?' (Which may also be the WC response.) The response that marks you out as LMC is 'Pardon?' The fight on the Mn thread kept overlooking the fact that class markers are arbitrary -- it's not that 'what?' is an objectively better response to not hearing someone, any more than 'toilet' is a terrible term and 'loo' or 'lavatory' good ones. It's just a tribal marker. The famous Jilly Cooper anecdote in her book Class tells how she overheard her son telling his friends 'Mummy says 'pardon' is a worse word than 'fuck'.'

Profanity is fine. What isn't fine for the traditionally-minded upper classes is their children using déclassé LMC language.

(However, Tatler has now decreed that in fact the smart can use 'pardon', though it seems in part because they think the young UC and UMC are not good at saying 'What?' in the 'right' way, ie without sounding thuggish. So clearly we can all heave a vast sigh of relief.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/02/say-posh-people-can-use-word-pardon-tatler-decrees/

But you know, I'm a foreigner, too. Not my circus, not my monkeys.

People who are middle class love to sneer at Working class...hate the word chavs.

Im middle class but laugh at middle class pretentions such as gap yahs, Waitrose, private schools, avocados organic food and glamping.

"What" is mc?????

I just thought saying "what" is rude whereas "pardon" is polite.

How to make an impression when out with the children. First make sure your audience is within easy earshot and call out:-
“Do hurry up Darlings. You know how Nanny hates us to be late when it’s Cooks day off!! (pronounced “ORF”)
Nuff said.........

Cook rather cross because I missed out her apostrophe!

I am a Brit and we are obsessed with class and classifying people by class. Now live in the US and here the same obsession is focused on race (or the social construct of the so-called "races") in terms of somehow needing to understand someone's category. I think in a rapidly changing competitive society our anxieties become focused on social categorization and changes between people. We somehow "need to know" to reassure ourselves.

I don't think class obsession is just a British thing. I'm pretty sure, from what I've read, it is much more prevalent in India for example.

As with all things in life, those who judge are the most insecure. You judge a person on their appearance because you are insecure about your own, you judge a person by their lifestyle because you are insecure about you're own, you judge a person by their class..... etc. You know how it goes.

I'm class fluid, raised as one but living as a lower one of which I am proud of being because I am very secure in that.

Rain So I will have to say Pardon me, what? in future.lol That will leave people guessing about my class.
duckling Is it possible to be a lower class than you are raised in?

Of course it is! It's not a one way system. Just because someone was raised in a stately home, private school etc, doesn't they can't end up as a binman living on a council estate