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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To try to return these sofas to their previous owner?

61 replies

BernardBlacksHangover · 22/02/2018 12:02

I had a thread on here yesterday about these second hand sofas, which we have now decided we don’t want.

In brief, we bought sofas second hand and paid by PayPal. The advert said “from a pet free, smoke free home”. Nearly new and purchased a year ago by the vendor, (we saw the receipt). They arrived at our house yesterday smelling a little bit smoky. Overnight it’s developed into a very strong stale cigarette smell.

We don’t want them at all now tbh and I’ll get rid of them one way or another, but Aibu to ask to return them because they stink of ciggies?

OP posts:
Original poster
BernardBlacksHangover · 22/02/2018 12:48

The sofas are really lovely looking, so it’s a shame.

OP posts:
sirlee66 · 22/02/2018 12:54

Saw your thread yesterday. If I was in your position, I'd do exactly the same as you! No one wants ashtrays sofas that stink!!

Hope you get your full refund, OP!

GrannyGrissle · 22/02/2018 13:02

Doesn't matter if it was a decorator smoking or the sellers pet hamster smoking. Why the hell should OP have a sofa that smells vile?
It's good you paid Paypal, open a dispute asap and you will get your money back.
Can't stand pisstakers and didn't you pay £200 OP? Not exactly a bargain.

Original poster
BernardBlacksHangover · 22/02/2018 13:04

It was actually £500 and there’s no way I’m keeping them. They stink.

OP posts:
RandomDreams · 22/02/2018 13:12

Did you pay via Paypal gift or services?

Elendon · 22/02/2018 13:14

Why didn't you just buy a new one plus an armchair for £500? Ikea sell lovely sofas, (obviously not THAT one) though you do have to factor in the delivery.

www.ikea.com/gb/en/products/sofas-armchairs/fabric-sofas/ektorp-three-seat-sofa-nordvalla-dark-grey-spr-69129232/

Schroedingerscatagain · 22/02/2018 13:16

As with everyone else, raise a dispute fast with PayPal

Contact seller, advise they falsely advertised and you have involved PayPal

I saw your thread yesterday and so wanted to comment then but didn’t, you won’t get the smell out I’ve been there and done that sadly

The husband smoking outside was a big red flag!

Hope all goes well for you with the new baby

Elendon · 22/02/2018 13:16

Ask PayPal to refund and then the seller will have to collect. Do all mediation through PayPal.

Hope you get your money back.

mrsBeverleyGoldberg · 22/02/2018 13:18

Febreeze?

AgathaF · 22/02/2018 13:20

Definitely raise it with Paypal. You're very likely to get a refund. You need to do it quickly though.

RandomDreams · 22/02/2018 13:26

If she paid via Paypal gift she will not get a penny back.

BadTasteFlump · 22/02/2018 13:47

Definitely open a dispute on Paypal. I once bought a sofa not realising it stank of smoke until I got it home - I wanted to keep it so tried everything, airing it outside, steam cleaning, spraying it with various potions. Nothing worked and eventually it went to the tip.

FastandLoose · 22/02/2018 13:57

As many people have said, raise a PayPal dispute and they will refund you. The seller is responsible for taking them back if faulty.

It’s awkward that you’ve taken them away before realising the problem, but I had the same - partner collected and didn’t realise it wasn’t as described. There ended up doing a bit of back and forth (eBay generating a postage label, me explaining it was far too big to post...) but they ended up refunding me. Mine was lower cost, but the principle should be the same.

TefalTester123 · 22/02/2018 15:19

A smoke free home surely does not include one where the husband smokes, gets covered in the smoke, and then sits on the sofa.

Lovesagin · 22/02/2018 15:21

I doubt it, did I read that your dh went to the house to pick them up? Surely he'd have noticed the smell then? I wouldn't be refunding in this situation, sorry.

Get a deep clean.

prh47bridge · 22/02/2018 15:39

I doubt it, did I read that your dh went to the house to pick them up? Surely he'd have noticed the smell then? I wouldn't be refunding in this situation, sorry

You would lose in court if you refused a refund and would have to pay interest and the buyer's court costs on top of the original amount. The goods must be as described. If they are not the seller is liable. That applies regardless of any opportunity the buyer has to inspect the goods when collecting them.

Lovesagin · 22/02/2018 16:04

So i can sell something privately, it gets picked up, inspected (presumably), buyer happy because I've been paid, then a few days later they can say it's got X wrong with it? What if op said it's got a massive rip in it (that happened whilst moving it around etc)?

Does this work with second hand cars by any chance? Sorry to to go off topic slightly, I've been avoiding private sellers because I thought if a fault became apparent soon after id have no recourse even though adverts state the car is perfect etc. Would be great if I have (although it will mean I'll prob never sell anything ever again !)

BewareOfDragons · 22/02/2018 16:11

Even if the previous owner smoked outside, his/her clothes and hair would still reek of smoke after doing that off and on every day, and sitting on the couch would transfer the smell. Yick.

Definitely ask for your money back if it smells of smoke; not as advertised.

RoyalBelum · 22/02/2018 16:12

I don't believe they will refund that easily, the whole point of collection only item is to ensure that buyers are happy with them. How do you prove you didn't have a party and the sofa got covered in smoke during the night?

The mistake of the seller is to accept paypal: the buyer can prove payment, but the seller cannot prove that the item has been sent. A dishonest buyer would just claim that the item has never been received, and would get refund.
Paypal for collection item is nuts.

prh47bridge · 22/02/2018 17:16

What if op said it's got a massive rip in it

For a private sale there is no requirement for the goods to be free of defects. The only requirement is that they comply with any description you give. So, unless you specifically say that the sofa is in perfect condition or similar, you would not need to provide a refund for a rip. Even if you did say it was in perfect condition, provided you could show that the sofa was not ripped when collected (e.g. a photo with a time stamp) you are ok. But the sensible thing to do is to avoid saying anything about the condition of the goods. That way a rip is definitely not your problem.

And yes, this does apply to cars. If the seller says the car is in perfect condition it must be free of faults. If they say the car has air conditioning then the air conditioning must be fitted and working. But if they simply say it is a black, 2002-registered Audi A4 a private seller is not liable for any faults (provided, of course, the car is fit for purpose - the seller cannot get away with selling you a completely unroadworthy vehicle).

As long as you are careful about what you say when selling something privately you won't have any problems. Describe the features of the item you are selling accurately and avoid anything that could be interpreted as making a claim about the condition of the item. For example, describing a car as a "good runner" is a bad idea.

Lovesagin · 22/02/2018 17:46

Thats good to know thanks prh. I've seen loads of private sellers where the advert says the car "runs perfect, no faults" and such but my dad saying "sold as seen" pops into my head and I wobble

upshltcreek · 23/02/2018 06:06

PayPal almost always side with the buyer. I have heard of people selling prams that are in perfect condition and then the buyers faking faults and getting their money back from PayPal, it is quite a common scam (although I know you're not trying to scam them!). Open the case soon though.

OnionKnight · 23/02/2018 06:14

Why is everyone assuming that the OP will get a refund? Like a previous poster said if OP paid via Paypal Gift she hasn't got a hope in hell of getting her money back unless the seller agrees.

MsHopey · 23/02/2018 06:16

I was under the impression that if the item is collection only, then PayPal say it was your choice to check the item in person before transferring any money over. Otherwise they will just say it's buyers remorse. I don't know if this is the case but it was like this several years ago.
I sold a sofa through eBay, I asked for cash on collection but they paid through PayPal anyway. They rented a van, came and fetched the sofa, then a few days later opened a case asking for a full refund. PayPal said no as they had the chance to inspect it first.
They said it smelt of dog, we did have a dog but had wrote in the advert that we had one. But they also said as they'd paid to rent a van they wanted a full refund and to keep the sofa, so obviously that did make them look more like chancers rather than someone with a serious complaint, so not sure how it would affect your purchase.

NoKnownFather · 23/02/2018 06:40

OP I wouldn't attempt to clean or deodorise them, because in doing so you have tampered with the sofas and I guess ruin all chances of a case through Paypal.

Instead I would lodge a claim through Paypal for 'an item not as described' and when you lodge the claim you can include a screenshot of the ad which states from a pet and smoke free home. State in the claim about your DCs and young baby and this was one of the reasons you purchased the sofas and due to renovations at the sellers house, the smell wasn't noticeable.

One time I had a complicated case through Paypal so I phoned them as it was easier to explain it to a real person and he approved the case in my favour while I was talking to him.

Just keep your comments factual (as I'm sure you would) and be firm with what you want....a full refund. Don't forget to ask about the man and van hire as I'm not sure if they would refund that...but thinking as I type this they do refund postage on a smaller item, so I guess it might be the same. Ask anyway, can't hurt.

Good luck

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