Tolls that have to be paid online

[Fianceechickie]

We live nearish the new Mersey bridge in Runcorn. You can't pay there and then, there are no booths and you have to remember to go online and pay when to get home. Is it me, or is that a neat way of money grabbing? Cheap for the operator who doesn't have to put in toll booths and people are bound to forget, being tired, busy, other things to do and they can just fine you then. DH been fined twice in the last few months having forgotten to pay the £2 when he gets home on evenings he's used it. On one occasion he paid for one trip that same day but forgot he'd driven across it again. You can set up an account but there's a £10 fee and £20 minimum top up. I've seen this on roads in Ireland too. I've not used it because I just know i would forget to pay!

Barbara I have a contract phone that I pay £5 a month for with not much data. That is fine, I don't need much. But if I do use it I often run out before the end of the month. The issue is not about it being a tiny amount of data, the issue is having data left.
And I always carry change for car parking, much easier than trying to use my phone.

I really really hate all these changes forcing us online. I don't care if there is an alternative, but I do think there should always be an alternative.

Notabellend I am not talking about my personal experience. I am talking about the substantial evidence from research studies on driving and attention. Something I suspect that I know far more about than you do.

So, restricting and tracking peoples movements, nice.

CuboidalSlipshoddy

you don't need a debit/credit card for a gMail/Apple account.

They try their hardest to prise one out of you, but there's always a "skip this step".

None of my or DWs devices have any card registered with our (unwanted) gMail/Apple "accounts".

I really really hate all these changes forcing us online. I don't care if there is an alternative, but I do think there should always be an alternative.

How much extra would you pay for that ? Or is the idea we all pay extra for some people to have an alternative ?

Do people understand what's coming, we've already got the plastic money, all transactions and movements will be tracked online soon enough. Cash will be done away with. If computer says no, then they'll be no alternative. The only way to stop it is to reject Smart phones, contactless payment and the likes, are we willing to do this? Or is it already too late?

Incidentally I often go abroad for a weekend and only take the currency of that country. It costs more to use my card abroad.

So you take a car abroad, often, for the weekend, taking only cash? What would happen if you had a puncture?

Or do you manage to rent a car for a weekend out of the three hundred quid, for cash? Neat trick: most rental companies will refuse to rent for cash, but I guess there might be some off-off-off-airport ones which will do it?

But if you aren't taking your car, and you aren't renting a car, why would road tolls or parking charges be an issue?

This is precisely what amuses me about these debates. The construction of spurious "ah, but what about people who..." scenarios which don't make any sense.

People who bring their own cars in this country without any means of payment other than cash don't, for practical purposes, exist, and if the minute handful who do are almost certainly people this country can well do without.

People who travel by plane to the UK for cash and then rent cars in the UK for cash, with no other means of payment available, equally don't exist outside the fevered imagination of those constructing "ah, but what about..." cases.

In exchange for this, we are expected to provide manned toll booths and to provide large numbers of ticket machines which are ripe for vandalism and fraud and require labour to empty and to cash up. And even then, we can construct equally spurious cases of people whose only means of payment is the ten pound notes they got from the ATM.

Incidentally I often go abroad for a weekend and only take the currency of that country. It costs more to use my card abroad

There's a whole range of credit and prepay charge cards available that are cheaper and more secure than taking cash abroad to pay for things.

I don't know why anyone would take actual cash abroad anymore, apart from if they had some leftover from last time they went.

I don't know why anyone would take actual cash abroad anymore

I pre-order cash and take a small amount with me, because there are countries where the ATMs don't work without a local card for local people. Japan, for example: non-local cards work in ATMs in 7-11s, Post Offices and that's the end of the list, and you can only buy or top-up a Suica card for the underground or local railways in Tokyo and elsewhere for cash.

If they had to pay people to stand at the toll booths it wouldn't just be queues the toll would be higher as they'd need to pay people to staff it - not to mention machine maintenance .
My grandad is 85 and can use the internet. It's harder now because he is losing his eyesight (so obviously doesn't drive) but I don't have much sympathy for someone 15 years younger who hasn't made the effort to learn . Anyone who worked in an office who is under 75 would have used internet at work. I doubt they would have got far refusing to use it because it was confusing back then!

Also, if it really is beyond them- is there not an alternative route?

You have until midnight the NEXT day to pay.

My parents are early 70's. Travel and drive all over in their car and motorhome. They don't have or do the internet though.

Do this system would be a bit shit for people like them. I do get that they are in the minority but they are part of a group of people in this country repeatedly being inconvenienced for not having not wanting the internet.

Sorry cuboid, I should have said 'in the types of places that people go on weekend breaks to'. After all, that would mostly be Europe and not massively off the beaten track as it would take too long to get there for the weekend.

Oh - read that as Trolls that have to be paid online - wondered about paying a troll!
Although is that where toll comes from - paying the troll that hid under the bridge and made you answer a question.
Forgive me - too much Dora the Explorer

And you can ring them up, you don't have to do it online.

CuboidalSlipshoddy

Calme toi ma belle

I've often wondered about this. Whenever we've crossed I've been sat in the passenger seat so can do it straight away, but no way would DP remember to do it. What about people who aren't online savvy? My dad wouldn't have had a clue. The people who haven't paid within 48 hrs should get a letter first asking for the £2 paying before having a late fee. I suppose they are making too much money to care though..

they are part of a group of people in this country repeatedly being inconvenienced for not having not wanting the internet

If it's inconvenient to them to not use the internet, why don't they, you know, use the internet? I know, a crazy idea. If people spent half as long figuring out how to use a phone that they spend producing increasingly elaborate ways to not use a phone, they'd be far better off.

You get the impression that they think that we're all sat around being impressed at how they are morally avoiding something we all secretly know to be dirty, rather in the manner of my mother-in-law's refusal to use a dishwasher.

CuboidalSlipshoddy, I like the cut of your jib very much. You've been the refreshing voice of reason throughout this thread against a wave of hand writing whataboutery! It's shameless ageism to pretend that being over a certain age means someone is incapable of learning new skills to use perfectly normal established technology. Sure, if someone wants to opt out then that's their choice, they don't then get to complain they can't access everything that would be available to them if they didn't stamp their feet and resist change for the sake of it. I agree a lot of these debates hinge on the absolute imagery outliers who are simply incapable of using the internet. The reality is that this is the way the world is now and refusing to accept it and learn only harms you, nobody else.

Also bemused at people thinking it's an excuse that they are forgetful. If you know you're forgetful you put things in place. Like set an alarm reminder on your phone. It's not difficult.

Nobody gets a free pass for 'forgetting' to pay their council tax or phone bill or tv license when renewal rolls around. Take some bloomin' responsibly for yourselves!

Hand wringing, not writing 😂

I do believe there should be courses available for absolute beginners to using computers and smartphones as it's hard to teach yourself otherwise given that most of us use things like YouTube to find lessons on stuff these days. It seems so odd how people infantilise older generations with 'they can't do it, they're incapable, not savvy' when they've undoubtedly experienced and coped with a lot of change in their lives. My father is almost 70 and as proficient as computers as I am. If someone chooses for whatever reason not to bother learning how to use technology that's absolutely their choice, but society doesn't have a responsibility to pander to them with additional methods that cost more money just because they're against change.

DH isn't online, militantly not online. How do people like him pay it?

I might try telling the next London bus driver that I refuse to use Oyster cards because as a Scot they confuse me. I'm sure he'll understand and accept cash.