To think innocent until proven guilty even at school?

[PurplePenguins]

There's 2 parts to my post really. Both annoy me but AIBU?

1. My DS3 is 15yo and very quiet and shy. A boy at his school was attacked in the playground (not badly so as to call the police). He accused my DS3 of the assault. I didn't believe him. It's not DS3 nature and the size difference would make it impossible (DS3 being a lot lighter and shorter). Anyway, DS3 was to spend the day in isolation while the school investigated. It took 3 days to watch the CCTV!!!! They discovered that it wasn't DS3 who attacked the boy in fact DS3 was the other side of the school grounds at the time so DS3 has spent 3 days in isolation for no reason. He has not even had an apology from anyone.
2. During his time in isolation, he has missed all breaks including lunch. DS3 wears braces (so no sugary foods or drinks) and is dairy intolerant. He has not been allowed a proper school dinner, but has been offered either a jam or cheese sandwich for which I have been charged £2.60 even though DS3 refused both. The school has a no packed lunch policy, saying they can cater for all dietary requirements. I wasn't told about the lunch arrangements when I was told about isolation. When I complained, the response was, in a nut shell all.students are treated equally and if DS3 doesn't want to eat that is up to him. AIBU to feel annoyed and feel as though they may have been treating him as though he was the one in the wrong?

(Sorry if I'm rambling)

Re CCTV protocol - there will be only a handful of people allowed to access it. There wouldn't need to be any special application for access made though as the school are using it for their own purposes as opposed to a 3rd party requesting it.

And of course CCTV might not have been conclusive - hence the need for witness statements and interviews.

In schools I’ve been in we would separate the apparent perpetrator in lessons by sending them to another class to avoid further issues, but punishment such as isolation would be done after investigation. I don’t see any reason why internal CCTV can’t be looked at immediately. It’s is there for that exact reason and it isn’t a data protection issue for internal staff to use it. It’s not like the police were requesting it from a shop or something.

I would keep your complaint to him being kept in isolation for 3 days while cctv was checked. That's outrageous.
Occasional jam would really do no harm to his teeth even with braces if he brushes them well at home. I had braces and ate far worse and had no ill effects. A complaint about that would seem petty I think and detract from the main issue of 3 days isolation when he did nothing wrong!

No, but if CCTV could not tell - there are blind spots, hoods etc and to be honest quality is usually quite poor, then you couldn't have those involved in positions to influence potential witnesses.

Personally I don’t think it’s unreasonable to give a child a choice of 3 sandwiches as part of a punishment. You have a vegan option, 2 veggie options, and 2 dairy free options (assuming he was given dairy free spread or no spread) and all 3 are suitable any religion apart from Jain who might be ok with the jam depending on flavour.

However the issue is that your child should not have been punished. If he was being punished fair enough. I think you should focus mainly on the fact he was punished unfairly and not the food issue if you want the head to take you seriously. You should mention it, but not as the main issue if you see what I mean.

"I would keep your complaint to him being kept in isolation for 3 days while cctv was checked. That's outrageous."

It isn't. And if that was the nature of the complaint it would be rejected as he wasn't in isolation for 3 days for CCTV to be checked, he was in isolation for 3 days whilst the incident was thoroughly investigated.

Complaining about that will get you nowhere.

It would not get you nowhere. 3 days isolation is punishment for severe transgressions in most schools. Why on earth should the ops child have been internally excluded for 3 days having done nothing wrong? The situation should have been investigated BEFORE punishment was given.

But the school will tell you he hasn't been punished.

The school will tell you he has received education onsite whilst isolated from other pupils whilst an investigation into a serious (and potentially excludable) offence was carried out. No sanction will be on his record.

Isolation is used to stop exclusions. What the school have done is give him their substitute for a temporary exclusion before they have established blame. If they didn't have an isolation unit, would they have temporarily excluded him before reviewing cctv? I think not!

This is big mistake on behalf of the school. At your meeting with the headteacher tell him what you want the outcome to be - I would suggest an apology, suitable punishment for the lying pupil and a clear policy for when this type of situation happens again, including reviewing evidence quickly and making sure that dietary needs are respected. I would also request in writing that that the school assures you that his time in isolation is not on his school record and that they acknowledge his response to his unfair treatment.

The school may well say he hasn't been punished. But he has. He has received the punishment a child receives for attacking another despite the fact he didn't. The op needs to be reassured that it won't happen again.

No he hasn't. There will be no sanction on his record. He has been placed in a room on his own whilst the school completes an investigation. A perfectly understandable, reasonable and safe practice.

The OP will get nowhere complaining about it. I will put money on that.

Op I hope the meeting goees well. That is outrageous. Place marking.

Why did it take 3 days? Surely they knew the time of the assault, could ask your DS where he was at that time and check the relevant CCTV.
With that and the food issue, they don't have a leg to stand on.

Whether it's on his record or not it happened!
Children are out in isolation as punishment not because it's fun for them. The ops child has been punished unfairly and is owed an apology.

Never underestimate a teachers ability to take far longer than it should to do a simple task........

However, I do have sympathy with them when they have to deal with idiot parents. The OP does not fall into that bracket though, and her son should have got an apology........

Complaints procedure and notify the governors. That is appalling, your poor DS

"Whether it's on his record or not it happened!"

Yes something happened but what was it?

Was a child punished without evidence of what happened? Or was a child placed in a separate facility in accordance with school procedures for purposes of safeguarding whilst a thorough and independent investigation took place?

Good luck complaining about the latter!

That’s pretty rubbish but you have to remember teachers are not investigators by trade.

How much training in investigation does it take to look at a CCTV recording?

Never, ever, suggest a punishmnet for another child. It is not your role. It is the role of the Head in line with the Behaviour and sanctions policy.

OP. You wish to seek an apology for your child being in isolation for three days. Your child is your priority. You need to establish if the school followed their policies (so read them in advance) and acted reasonably. Three days, in my view, is not reasonable.

In my experience of working for an LA in a senior role (in this field) previously, it does not take three days to interview children. Most SLT get on with it immediately for obvious reasons! The Head may wish to exclude based on evidence gathered. Far too much reliance is being placed on CCTV and the isolation room in this case. Very many schools do not rely on this as sole evidence. You need to establish why other children were not interviewed promptly. Why was your DS not believed and his version of where he was not investigated to corroborate what he said. SLT do not teach in these schools. It is their job to deal with this promptly.

It is correct that they have used isolation so that an exclusion does not show up on their statistics. Ofsted do look at exclusion statistics and have been very critical of over use at some schools. They also look at formal complaints to the school when they visit. The school must, by law, have a compaints policy. Have you seen it?

Isolation in most schools is a sanction (or punishment). Do not accept that it isnot a punishment. It deprived him of lessons, seeing freinds and doing activities or even a proper lunch. It is a punishment.

Do not be fobbed off and complain formally if they do not apologise. However do not meet the Head without being familiar with the policies surrounding behaviour and sanctions. They are vital documents.

Good luck.

"How much training in investigation does it take to look at a CCTV recording?"

Have you seen a cctv recording? They are poor quality - what if what it shows is unclear? What if you can't make out what's happening? What if those involved have hoods up/ what if its in a blind spot?

Like i said above - the 3 days is for a full investigation, not just to look at cctv!

Bubbles - 3 days is unusual but plausible for an investigation, particularly if there are conflicting stories and cctv is unhelpful.

ohforgoodness, three days is totally inappropriate for investigating an incident of this type if you are keeping the alleged perpetrator in isolation. By all means take three days if he is not being prejudiced in this way, but any school needs to be aware of the fact that, other issues apart, whilst he is in isolation he is being deprived of his legal right to full time education unless they are providing full teaching in the national curriculum, which is highly unlikely. Just setting work for him to do in isolation does not meet the definition of education.

It is perfectly possible to carry out a full investigation within half a day. Good practice requires that everyone involved in the incident be made to sit down separately from each other (so that they can't confer) and either write down what happened or tell a teacher; and this should happen without delay to avoid collusion and whilst events are fresh in their memories. Whilst that is happening the CCTV can be viewed. There is simply no valid reason for that process to take three days.

If a CCTV recording is so unclear that it takes three days to make out what's in it, there is frankly no point in having the CCTV system.

OP, before you meet the head, print off copies of the school's discipline and complaints policies (they should be available via the website) and go through them in detail, noting in particular what the discipline policy says about dealing with serious incidents and the use of internal isolation.