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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Neighbours access rights and non disclosure by previous owner!

149 replies

Pitwoman · 19/02/2018 07:24

Previous owner didn’t disclose a dispute and missing conveyance from our deeds! 😩😩
Bought a end of terrace house with a parking space. After a few renovations...removal of a shed to create a courtyard garden and new bathroom, neighbours came around saying he had ‘washing rights’ and we couldn’t park our car on our driveway. It turns out that their was a conveyance missing off our deeds that were attached to neighbours. We instructed solicitors to resolve and found that the conveyance has to go on our deeds. We then tried to address a resolution with them about us having parking and then using area for washing but he won’t be resasonable about it and keeps hanging a washing line across my driveway...he’s never used it as his house is filthy! We found out during that process that he had been having the same issue with the previous vendor. Our solicitor wrote to them asking them to agree our reasonable terms, (there access apparently can not stop our enjoyment of the land) and ended the letter by saying if you don’t reply we will assume your agreeable. 18mthd later we put up a For Sale sign as this has been so distressing in a day to day basis, and they write to the Edtate Agents saying we are in dispute and please pass this on to the potential vendors! As such no sale....not sure if it is linked but still. Even tried to part ex but property older than 1930’s. Can anyone help me here. I am reasonable and understand they have rights but also to take previous owner to court will cost £20,000 and it’s such a simple resolution. 😩

OP posts:
Original poster
Pitwoman · 21/02/2018 22:23

Okay people, so much useful information coming through, thank you all.
When I returned this morning there was a clothes airer on the driveway....it was raining! I couldn’t park but wasn’t staying anyway as had work. Later I returned and it was lying on the floor....so much for drying clothes.
I am trying to get an appointment at Land Registry as it seems they were at fault for the conveyance missing.
I have involved Police, to keep a record of his behaviour and can email them everyday I have an issue. But they don’t get involved. 🤷‍♀️
I have letters from the neighbour that say they were in dispute with previous owner, so I am thinking of perusing a claim against him.
But, I also have someone interested in possibly buying the property......I told them about th missing conveyance and the dispute but not to the full extent at this stage (no offer has been made), as I do feel his behaviour is personal.
Such a shame because the drive is big enough for both his washing, access and a car if we just all were a bit more considerate. 😩

OP posts:
Collaborate · 22/02/2018 01:34

@beepthemeep My understanding is that the right of the neighbour has been protected by registration - albeit on the neighbour's title and not OP's. Perhaps the LR will have to pay compensation to one or other of them.

Mummyoflittledragon · 22/02/2018 04:50

He is really stupid if he thinks he can stop you from parking your car on the driveway by putting one clothes airer on there. Why can’t you just move it to the side? Moving it would not have prevented him from drying his clothes. My concern is that he may end up buying 20 clothes airers and permanently your drive with old clothes. He sounds mad enough to do this.

Mummyoflittledragon · 22/02/2018 04:51

permanently litter your drive

DarkPeakScouter · 22/02/2018 05:00

Could you not move his airer to park the car then put it neatly next to your car?

SilverBirchTree · 22/02/2018 05:06

Offer the neighbour money to give up their rights.

SilverBirchTree · 22/02/2018 05:07

And change your solicitor, they’ve let you down here.

beepthemeep · 22/02/2018 07:07

Collaborate - you may be right - I didn't read it that way; I read it as the neighbour produced a deed and now it's been registered.

If it should have been registered, either the LR or the former seller should have done it, depending on what the deed and the application said. Hopefully OP will get advice and tell us because of course it's all about us Grin

Collaborate · 22/02/2018 07:51

I think it's the LR's mistake. they should have registered it against both titles at the time of initial registration.

Littlecaf · 22/02/2018 08:11

I would keep moving his washing to a place where it doesn’t impede your parking. And when it’s dry plonk it on his doorstep & be ultra nice. So if you happen to see it’s dry at 2am, ring the door bell...

“hi NDN, your washing is dry, thought you’d like it back now”.

Or

“Hi NDN, I’ve moved your washing to behind my car, next to the exhaust, so it’ll get drier quicker”

“Hi NDN, it’s raining, and 11pm on a Sunday night, so your washing is getting wet. Thought you’d like to know”

Hi NDN, we’re having a bonfire so you might want to move your washing.”

Just keep bugging him. You’re only making sure his washing is dry.

PiffIeandWiffle · 22/02/2018 09:26

It seems absolutely bizarre to me that his "right" to use your drive for his washing trumps your right to park a car on it.

I'd be raging personally & would be looking for all sorts of petty and nasty ways to make his life an absolute misery!!

But that's just me......

beepthemeep · 22/02/2018 09:31

It does depend though. I dealt with a case recently where the obligation was clearly on the covenantor to register it. The covenantor had never done so, and my client had bought for market value some years later. When the other owner tried to enforce it, we simply said we'd taken free of it - and won. The other side could have sued the original covenantor, but it was a once big retail chain that had been in liquidation for a few years by then!

That's why we'd need to see the wording of the deed, but it's also why I am interested in why OP was advised just to cave in and register it.

Mummyoflittledragon · 22/02/2018 09:57

Arnold
That is very interesting and hopefully correct.

“However changing the type of washing line (for example from a point to point line to a rotary one) .... would not be permissible once the easement has been established.”

In other words, he needs to tell you and prove to you exactly how the washing was hung historically and do it in exactly the same way otherwise he has no right. Are you aware of any old hooks? I’d definitely be taking legal advice on this one and getting a solicitors letter posted to him. It sounds as if the rights aren’t worth the paper they were written on.

beepthemeep · 22/02/2018 10:07

that's if it's an easement by prescription though. Useful for everyone to know how these things can arise, so well worth reading - but here OP mentions a deed. If there is an express written grant, the points about prescription don't apply. Instead it comes down to an interpretation of what that deed says.

Which is why I persist in joking about wet ink!!

bebealpha · 22/02/2018 12:45

100% check your household insurance like a pp I don't understand why you were advised to register that right. That sounds like negligent advice to me.

Where does he actually dry his clothes? The right may have expired if he hasn't exercised it.

Pop over to the garden law forum. Some really knowledgable posters over there.

And in a terrace I think that the conveyancer may well be negligent if they haven't checked adjoining property deeds. I think there is caselaw on it.

snewsname · 22/02/2018 14:04

This is going to be one of those cases where everyone keeps shifting the blame. And will be very expensive to resolve. How much money are we talking for that 15% reduction in value? If it's only a few thousand it might be easier to move.
Follow all the advice on here and review your options.

Original poster
Pitwoman · 22/02/2018 23:04

beepthemeep you are raising some interesting points and obviously have experience. I would love to send you the details by email. Would you be interested in seeing the conveyance? Or is that too cheeky. 😉

OP posts:
LakieLady · 23/02/2018 08:09

Just a right to use land to dry clothes

Weird that it's just clothes, not laundry. So no sheets, towels etc.

DrinkFeckArseGirls · 23/02/2018 08:32

Don’t think it’s weird that no bedding allowed. That would be in the way of the house owner to use the drive then.

Original poster
Pitwoman · 23/02/2018 08:35

The documents starts:
This Conveyance is made the sixth day of August One thousand nine hundred and sixty three....
The interesting bit reads....And together with the right (so far as the Vendor is entitled to grant the same) for the Purchasers and their successors in title to use the piece of land lying on the south East side of number blah blah Rd for the purpose of drying clothes but not for parking cars or other vehicles.
The one that was attached at purchase did not mention this Conveyance. There was only a later one of 1982 which didn’t include this drying rights.
? 😔

OP posts:
SoupDragon · 23/02/2018 09:19

So, drying clothes not parking a clothes airer...

Tomkinz · 23/02/2018 11:27

To be clear, your neighbour's property shows that in 1963, (pre-tumble dryer and radiator years), it was given access to drying space, but a later purchase in 1982 shows no mention of the drying right and it hasn't been mentioned in any conveyance since?

Original poster
Pitwoman · 23/02/2018 13:09

@tomkinz yes that is correct.

OP posts:
beepthemeep · 23/02/2018 13:33

Thanks pitwoman - very interesting. Do you have your neighbour's title? You can get it on land registry website for about £3. Don't tell us the address or anything obviously but is the right registered there (it might not be, if he has the benefit) and what date was it registered on there?

It's possible that the right was later extinguished and the neighbour isn't admitting it.

But mostly, if it wasn't registered and it should have been, and you bought for a fair price, that shouldn't be your problem. That's why I'm so interested in why your solicitor told you to put it on your title. Why not just say, "bugger off, a bona fide purchaser for value has taken free of a non-registered interest, go off and sue the LR or the previous owner who should have registered it and didn't!"