Intelligence hereditary?

[reailtyre]

Long time user but name changed as I discuss possibly outing information.

Not a TAAT but inspired by something I've seen this morning in 'Gifted and Talented' where a mnetter was asking about her DD's mathematical ability and mentioned that as she had a very high IQ, she'd expect her daughter to also be intelligent.

Is that true? I'm a teacher and have two degrees so I guess I'm relatively intelligent, although by no means a genius and my qualifications are in an arts subject not a scientific or mathematical one.

My husband is a Police Officer and although he's got common sense, he is most definitely not 'textbook clever' and left school with no qualifications.

Does this automatically mean that our children cannot be highly intelligent because we're not?

AIBU to believe that a child can be intelligent even if their parent isn't and similarly, just because someone is intelligent, doesn't mean they'll pass that on to their offspring?

What do you mean ‘no there isnt’?
There IS. There absolutely is.

Genes code for so much of our development. We’re barely formed in any direction at birth - so do you think that height is heritable? Or temperament?

The skills that underpin what we call intelligence (working memory etc) are largely a result of a genetic predisposition. We tend to think of intelligence as being a composite of many skills like verbal and non-verbal abilities, working memory and processing speed. This definition of ‘g’ isn’t the only theorised definition, but is the one with greatest evidence. These things aren’t ‘pure’ by any stretch, and are not immune to effects of culture and experience, but they’re not a bad proxy within a given population.

This doesn’t mean that brains are ‘hard-wired’ (that phrase is somewhat meaningless). It means that our potential to learn from experiences is subject to the way our genes act of brain development.

For example, within one Y4 classroom working memory may range from typical Y1 to Y6 WM performance, and ALL of that is ‘average’. It’s likely that genes explain the majority of that variance, and its up to educators to take the knowledge into account to design a classroom that allow everyone to excel.

You are right to question society’s obsession with ‘intelligence’ and academic success. There are people who still talk in horribly eugenicist terms (nothing new since Galton sadly). But our distaste about this should use the evidence to promote meeting potential through education and socioeconomic advancement for all, rather than a very dull-witted genetics argument (not yours, obviously - those who make that. James Watson, you awful racist, I’m looking at you).

I think nature is likely to set your intelligence potential (whatever intelligence is - if we define as the ability to do well on intelligence tests) and nurture will dictate how close you get to reaching that potential. Same as with sports ability, musical ability, or most other things really. As the parent of a donor conceived child I have a direct interest in this. The donor had a lower level of educational achievement than me, but I’ve no idea what opportunities she had. But there are so many variables I’m not going to lose sleep over it. And so much more to having a worthwhile life than being ‘intelligent’.

My middle daughter is highly intelligent and has been from the oft, all my friends observed it as did nursery and school. She was born bright!

Both my DH and I are naturally very bright - top of school, Oxbridge, etc.

One of our kids is also scarily bright and the other is more normal.

It can run in families but there is no guarantee.

A lot depends on how you define intelligence. It doesn't always translate into academic achievement - or any other achievement, come to that. For a happy and 'successful' life, personality factors are more important, IMO.

FWIW, DH and I don't have parents who went to university or were seen as noticeably bright. My mum is about averagely intelligent. My dad is clever but unambitious and (after a rubbish education) quite happy to channel his intelligence into chess and similar puzzle-type hobbies. You would have to know him pretty well to realise how bright he is.

I’m a geneticist.

Most people accept roughly between 60-80% heredity.

No there isn't. Again, what does heredity mean in a species with a brain that is not hard wired? What is intelligence?

Our brains are not hard wired but that doesn’t mean that the parameters that lead to higher intelligence aren’t set to a degree. It’s a suite of genes that control things like interconncetedness between hemispheres, how neutrons grow and mature and branch and connect etc etc. Hard wiring is neither here nor there.

Think of the hereditary part as setting the stage of what the brain can achieve - the rest of it is environmental - obviously severe neglect or a good upbringing Male a difference, as do severe nutritional deficiencies, and a host of other things.

But yes, it’s strongly hereditary

It is hereditary, and also inversely proportional with childbearing.

What I mean by parameters are that there are certain physical features that higher intelligence brains are more likely to have, and those are genetically determined.

Also causes of lower intelligence are often genetically determined - things that damage the formation of the brain for example. Obviously environmental causes at play too such as excessive alcohol exposure in utero

I think intelligence is inherited but academic ability is largely a result of nurture

Which suggests that academic ability is not a measure of intelligence, but a measure of doing well at exams ...

Forgot to add that my mum and sister held her about 12 hours after she was born. My mum, who is an intelligent woman in her own right, said this one is a bright spark and my sister agreed! She was her 11th grandchild and she had eight children of her own.

My daughter did indeed get a first at University.

Academic ability can be improved by practise, but you can only work with what you’ve got. It’s not exactly the same thing as intelligence but it’s a huge overlap

Depends how you measure intelligence. As I've said on other threads being academically brilliant (at least on paper) doesn't tell the full story. FWIW, I have known A Grade student friends (as adults) who show no superior intellect to other friends who have had much more checkered academic careers.

Of course it's mostly hereditary, unless you reject evolution (in which case you're an idiot). There seem to be an increasing number pushing the "blank slate" theory these days in the name of political correctness, they are no better than flat-earthers.

There was definitely an article going around recently that intelligence and mathematical ability was always determined by the mother. I was upset for my kids! However since I've been aware of that article I have to say I've noticed it can't always be true. I know several very very bright children with below average mothers.

So far, my eldest is exactly the same as I was school report wise and we've had very different experiences of education.

It's an interesting thing to think about.

I was aways good at maths. It just clicked ad I understood. My mum was average...but my dad was great at math.
In turn my dad's dad was also great at math.
Now my son is great at math...he is 9 working on upper school math. He describes it as I did and it just clicks and he remembers it.

So I do think in our family maths ability has been inherited.

Privilege is hereditary. Being surrounded by high levels of education and intelligent parents is a privilege.

On top of that intelligence is a trait like any other so is also potentially hereditary.

I'm of average intelligence, my dh is highly intelligent.

One of our dd's is average, the other is a genius. But the genius dd has very high anxiety, so is a lot less happy than the more average dd.

Depends what you mean. If you’re talking about getting good GCSEs, privilege is much more important than intelligence.

littlemissrain high iq often comes with SEn.

I was working on a figure of around about 50%. Yes genes will mostly direct how the brain responds to environmental effects, but the environmental effects are huge, and start from even before birth as you point out.

Throw in the possibility of different types of intelligences, of which academic ability is only one and not necessarily of greater value than others, and you have a very complicated picture.

The point about agendas, aptly demonstrated by BertrandRussell there, is not merely about racism, but internal British social classes and home politics in an age of inequality.

The more average and above average can certainly improve with right circumstances, but I've found super bright kids to be very modest; it may not be clear to others quite how different these very bright children are.

Bit like Cindy Crawford used to say she would dress down try to look plain when meeting new people to try to take edge off people feeling intimidated by her looks - people would often say what a disappointment in the flesh etc.

Same with intelligence - really bright do have to try to hide it sometimes leading others to not understand how easy school etc is for them and quite how large the gap is from above average intelligence to the super bright.

It's interesting, isn't it.

In my family, my Dad is the intelligent one and I "took after him", apart from his skills with foreign languages. My memory doesn't work like his. Maths and Art though - yes.

Neither of my siblings were considered to be "clever", although they both have decent skill sets outside of academic ones.
My mother - well who knows. She certainly wasn't dim, but she wasn't given opportunities to explore her intellect - she was diverted into "women's job" options at school and left at 16 to start work. However, she also strongly resisted any idea of going back to studying as she got older - but whether that was because of low self esteem or genuine incapability, we'll never know.

My grandparents - well neither of my grandmothers were given any opportunity to be academic - they were brought up to be workers in working class jobs and then wives, who didn't work. My grandfathers were both in skilled trades, both requiring mathematical skill, both protected trades in the war. My father very much took after his father - but again, we just don't know what his mother's academic abilities may or may not have been because she was never given the opportunity to explore them. I suspect this is a common story!

I didn't make the most of my intellect - I "wasted" it, some might say, through procrastination and laziness. I'm pleased to see that DS1 has NOT inherited that from me at least! DS2, otoh, may have - he's less inclined to school work (although he has only just started at school, so I'm probably not being very fair to him).

We'll see - so far DS1 is managing pretty well in school and getting awards; DS2 may or may not follow suit.

There's research going on in this area

Intelligence seems to depend on the mother's genes, but nature is only part of the issue.

Nurture plays a huge part. How the child is allowed to develop, how the home environment influences academic ability and what support the parents give the child all affect intelligence, logical and critical thinking abilities and creative abilities.

Intelligence is one thing, how it is nurtured is entirely another.