To wonder where I went wrong with DS?

[TangySweet]

I have 3 sons, DS1 (31), DS2 (29) and DS3 (18) this is about DS2.

He has a 2 year old DD, with his now ex-wife. They weren't married long less than 4 years, but DS refuses to accept any of it was his fault (there was no cheating on either side, Ex-DIL has said she isn't blameless in it either)

GD has a few extra needs, mainly a speech problem and mobility issues due to a foot problem. She only started walking a few months ago, just after her 2nd birthday. She's no where near ready for potty training. She's not hard to look after at all though, and he would have known that when he left his wife as they split when his DD was 18 months old (she's closer to 3 than 2)

I have her on a Monday afternoon. DS is sometimes working, and doesn't arrange contact to see her. He worked 6 Mondays in a row between end of November and Christmas. So didn't see her at all.

When she's here I do everything for her, change her nappies, get her food, if she gets muddy I bath her. DS sits on the sofa, occasionally reading a book to her but he rarely looks up from his phone. He took the tags off two of her Christmas Presents from me and rewrote them from him, without even knowing what they were.

He hasn't spoken to his ex-wife since they divorced last June. She's been more than reasonable with him offered him every other weekend and 2 nights in the week contact on top of me still having her on Mondays so he could see her again then, but he isn't bothered.

I found out recently he doesn't pay maintenance he "works" but according to DIL the Attachment of Earnings came back that he's paid less than £20 a week, which isn't right as he has a flat that he shares with a friend (thankfully he doesn't live with me and his dad or I'd kick him out) plus he's always "working" so can't do contact. When asked about it he just shrugs his shoulders and says thats the way things are.

It's really unfair as he was a good dad before the split. DIL tells me he would pick her up from Nursery, attend appointments, go to groups with her, even take her swimming or to the play centre.

I don't know where I went wrong with him. His older brother has 3 children, 1 with an ex and he sees that boy most days of the week, does the school run, doesn't pay maintenance but he sees him loads so it kind of works out equally. My DH and I have been together 35 years, and DH is just as involved with the boys lives as I am - he took time off to look after them in school holidays, did clubs etc.

If I stopped doing the Mondays I know DS2 would never see his daughter. I won't stop the Mondays as have a lot of fun with GD, but I feel so awful that she doesn't have a "father". But soon she'll be at school and DS won't have the option to come see her here (I plan to still see her but how that will look/work out I'm not sure).

AIBU to wonder where I went wrong with him? Or how I can drag him out of this?

stick to mondays. do everything through the child's mother. give her the child's presents in future. dont enable your son. what a shit to pass off someone elses gifts as his own for his own child. he doesnt want to see her, doesnt provide any money for her to eat or live and doesnt even buy her gifts at christmas? he wasnt a good dad before they spilt up either. ou described the basics of parenting. you are not to blame for your adult sons' actions. they are adults.

but your other son isnt a prize either. he also isnt paying towards his child either.

Yes I am glad you were brave enough to post that Dolphin. It’s a horrible truth but the truth all the same. Of course not ALL men, but once the mum is out the picture, it’s all too common for men to see the kids as part of his past.

You can't make him into something he isn't. I'd just carry on building a good relationship with your ex DIL and especially your GD and let him get on with it. It's really hard accepting that your kids have attributes that you don't like or understand. But it's the only way to stay sane.

It's bloody awful that he can lie about his income and not pay any maintenance.

Isn't there any proof that he earns more that you could try to help your GD's mum get access to?.. tax returns, bank statements?

I don't know much about this but it seems so unfair that he doesn't have a reasonable attachment to his earnings going to his daughter.

I know lots of men who have left behind their children and go on to become great stepdads to their new girlfriend's children so I do think it is true that men bond with children through the mothers.

I also know lots of women who put new boyfriends before their children too. I just think it's easier for men to walk away.

I guess existing children are a huge reminder of a past and of people that some would rather forget.

OP, I doubt there is anything you could have done differently. You GD is very lucky to have a mum and nan who put her first.

Does your DH, her grandad, play a part in her life?

Her brother and dad have both spoken to him repeatedly and he just shrugs and says that's life. He could be depressed I suppose, will try and speak to him again. If I ask him to do anything for GD he just shrugs or goes up to DS3s room to avoid it. I don't want to risk leaving him to it incase it effects GD negatively.

He knows I have GD on a Monday so invites himself round, not sure how to stop him getting in, as DS3 still lives with us.

Yes my DH is as involved as he can be. If he's here he plays with GD, invites her to walk our dog with him, chats to her etc. DS1 is also heavily involved with bring his DC round after school on a Monday, and has helped me/DIL out when I've needed to work last minute on a Monday and has looked after GD for me. DIL has also called on him to get GD from Nursery when she's had to unexpectedly work late.

I can't afford to pay maintenance but will make sure GD never goes without because of her dad. I will try and find out how/if he's working as it's really not fair. I can't see how he's doing it at all. Unless he;s actually not working or working as little as whatever service calculated his earnings say.

Just keep doing what you are doing. You love your grand daughter and you are in her life. She knows that ye love her and want her. That's all you can do. Your son is a grown man and makes his own decisions. Just keep up the communication with you dil. The main thing now is maintaining the relationship you have with you Gd.

Your DIL and GD are very lucky to have such a caring GM in you. Unfortunately some people are just horrible and embarassing as it may be, your 'D'S sounds like he is. (Nature rather than nurture?). Don't waste your breath on him, just offer unconditional support to his D- EX as you already are and maybe offer to fund a vasectomy for 'D'S for Fathers' Day?

It's hard to know where you went wrong. Maybe you subconsciously favoured the elder child when they were young? That is pretty common, especially when the age gap is only a couple of years. The elder child does everything first, and is usually shown more trust. (Jobs that are trusted to the elder child when they are 10 won't be trusted to the younger one when they are 10, because the elder one is now 12.)

I think that a lot of the comments on here are unfair because they basically say "your son is a cunt". He's not doing anything wrong, he's just behaving in a way that his development has led him to. To be honest he sounds depressed. Mental illness isn't his fault. Also I suspect that his daughter is a reminder of his ex-wife. Sometimes people want a clean break from their past, and it sounds like he's trying to accommodate you by making the efforts he does, even though he doesn't want to.

Maybe he'll regret it in future, maybe not. There's not much more you can do than offer him your love and support.

He's not doing anything wrong, he's just behaving in a way that his development has led him to

What??

To risk a flaming, I find for the most part men don’t bond emotionally with their children. They think they do, and we think they do, but it’s via the mother. If you died, your DH probably would find somebody else and not be as attached to your sons

There is SOME truth in this.
My ex husband was a really good Dad to our two children. I even said to a friend, who had split up with her husband and was upset her ex didn't bother about their son that I didn't think my husband would ever be like that. She said she reckoned if we ever split up he would be the same especially when he met someone else.
I was bloody offended and told her she was wrong.
Well, a few years later me and him did split up...and she was right. My ex saw the children most weekends but dumped them at his mother's most of that time. He didn't buy them Christmas or birthday gifts Then he remarried and hardly ever kept contact.
He was the last person I would ever have thought would let his kids down. It's not your fault OP, but you should we as much of your GD as you can and not help your son in any way.

Is it possible that he is struggling with his DD's developmental delays? As she has gotten older, it will have become more and more clear how these things are affecting her and he may be starting to see where this will effect the rest of her life. It can be very difficult.

I work with adults with disabilities and, sadly, have seen many families where the parents were simply not equipped to deal with their child with disabilities.

@Dolphinscrossing that is downright ignorant. My father was and is extremely close to me. My mother never was. How well you bond depends on how good a parent you are not your sex.

My older son doesn't pay maintenance because he does 4/5 morning school runs for his son as his ex starts work at 8am so she drops GS round to his dads at 7.45am, and 3/5 afternoon school runs on two of those nights DS keeps hold of GS gives him his tea and drives him back to his mums, on the other night he drops him straight at his mums. He pays for him to go to scouts, pays every other school trip, pays for a full set of uniform to be kept at his house including a full set of PE kit. Has him every Saturday and every other weekend has him Friday-Sunday. He takes him along with his 2 daughters with his current GF on holiday once a year, and he covers 4-5 weeks a years holiday or sports clubs when he's not on holiday so him and his ex felt maintenance was unnecessary.

GDs delays are only minor, she struggles with speech but every time I see her she's learnt something new and is generally a happy child.

Outy, seriously, you could not have come across a more devoted Dad than mine. I grew up with an alcoholic mother and children stressed her out. Our dad took us for long, long walks to parks and ponds and farms on Sunday mornings while she was passed out in bed. As a young preteen, he was my go-to. If I ever had to do a role model type thing at school -you know the sort - it was him I wrote about.

Then Mum died. To be fair, he was still a great dad, to his stepchildren.

It sounds complicated but he is being selfish not caring for his lovely baby.

Would he be willing to get counselling? It sounds like he has issues where he's almost letting his daughter suffer because he and her mother split.

Isadora actually makes a good point here:

"Isadora2007 Sat 17-Feb-18 10:19:05
I wonder how much it hurt him when they spilt and he had to leave his daughter? Could he have just shut off from that pain and withdrawn from her? Does he believe she is better off without him or that it doesn’t matter if he sees her or not? That says something to me that he feels worthless as a father.

Or he could be a selfish twat. He’s your son OP, which do you believe?"

Maybe instead of him being selfish and punishing his daughter for his and his ex's split, he is in fact disengaging from his daughter so that he doesn't feel so hurt and because he doesn't feel like he's important in her life any longer.

Just wanted to say that you sound like an excellent granny. Your DD is lucky she has you and her mum, very disappointing about your DS.

What a fab exMIL you are and GP. 💕
OP, you mention your son was great Dad before split.
You know him - is it possible he is depressed and the family breakup was harder for him than you realised?

If he were my son, I would do what was necessary to help him change. Discuss possibilities of depression, ask him to go to a dr to have the conversation.

And then I would sit him down and tell him that for the next 6 weeks you, him and his DF are going to do a homemade parenting course. Give him short terms aims (ie. cuddle, rough and tumble, play with daughter at the park, do a craft with daughter, bake a cake etc). If he refuses or doesn’t take it on board I would wash my hands of him. I could not enable his behaviour. How dare he lie on your sofa and watch you parent his child. He is a selfish man and if, with support he doesn’t want to change then I seriously think he needs to live the full consequences of his actions.

I would also continue to do as you have been and keep the lines of communication open with your DIL. It sounds like you two have s good bond and she no doubt very much relies on those Monday afternoons to get some space to herself. Could you occasionally do a bit of cooking or babysit in an evening to help her? I’m not saying you owe it, but things can’t be easy for her either.

Lastly, your DS1 sounds like and excellent father and uncle, you have raised him well. Don’t focus on the negatives. You sound like a caring and kind DM and DG. take care.