To think this is discrimination and want to do something?

[Cowardlycustard2]

So angry about this. I recently spent a long time on a job application, to be informed that I hadn’t been selected for interview. Can’t give too much detail as will out myself, but work in a very specialist professional area and locally there are very few of us so tend to know on grapevine what’s happening etc. I am very experienced and highly qualified in my role and matched all job spec criteria well. Have found out that a couple of people being interviewed are new graduates so don’t have experience etc. It is not a role where it would cost them any more to hire an older or experienced person it’s a fixed starting salary by the way. The application process states that age and ethnic background need to be given but “will not be used as part of selection process”. However I think my age has been used to rule me out of an interview particularly as the hiring manager knows me due to being part of a local small professional community. I am so angry but also feel that I must challenge this somehow but haven’t got a clue how to do this. I know anti age discrimination legislation exists but have never heard of anyone successfully challenging an employer on this basis in a situation like this. Grateful for any advice. Thanks.

I would ask in which areas you didn't meet their specifications and what they were looking for in those areas. Twelve competencies is far too many by the way. We'd get shot down by HR for trying to advertise like that.

"Aren’t they supposed to offer an interview to applicants that meet all the spec?" No they don't HAVE to offer an interview to anyone.

A - you're making a hell of a leap to age discrimination with no proof, for all you know they interviewed people your age and older

B - you sound bloody hard work and as its a niche area and they know you I can't help but wonder if it's a personality issue that has put them off considering you. That's allowed.

"It’s a very specialist area and requires a specific professional qualification which is rare so they def would not get 300 applications" not necessarily - in the current job market it's possible they're getting applications from all over the country, especially if it's as niche as you claim. Also even expecting to interview say 25 people is a bit much! How many people do you think could have applied? Country wide?

Also if it is a ltd field kicking off is the worst thing you could do.

OP, you're not going to get the answer that you want though - they are not going to tell you how you scored directly against the candidates that have been asked for interview.

They have already told you that they thought the other candidates were stronger. It's not a nice thing to hear, I know, but I don't think you'll be doing yourself (or your good reputation) any favours by pushing this any further.

YABU. You want to “piss them off” and “rattle their cage” because they didn’t offer you an interview?

While you might have an exceedingly good professional reputation, it’s possible your personal reputation (as you say the manager knows you) is letting you down if you’ve shown this side of you before.

Experience doesn’t always mean good, and sometimes it’s better to hire those new in the profession and those without experience as you can mould them to how you want them and they don’t bring bad habits with them.

Can I politely contact them again for feedback and ask for something specific against scoring matrix etc?

You can, but they'll only show you your results, which won't mean anything in isolation....

If they tell you that you scored 75/100 that doesn't help you - you have to assume the other candidates got 76 or higher....

Was it competency based? Ive seens some very smart and talented people fuck that royally up with waffle rather then justification.

You sound bitter, and a little convinced of your own superiority due to your experience. Maybe the manager has had that kind of feed back? To then want to piss them off, seems to indicate/ probably unfairly as it’s just one post, that if you don’t ‘win’ then you get pissy about it. If you’ve asked for feedback, nothing else you can do, except move on.

As others have said, there is no legal requirement to interview everyone who matches a job spec. They also have to consider, for example, the structure of the team in which the applicant will be working. Eg, you may be as qualified/experienced or more so than the prospective manager/supervisor, which could result in any number of potential problems.

I think you have little to no chance of proving age discrimination but it's perfectly reasonable to ask for feedback, if you think that's helpful.

Also, considering you work in such a specialized area, you never know if you may need to apply to work for that company in the future and if you piss them off, that will never be an option.

Havent RTFT but you need to apply for a Subject Access Request - that should (if they don't shred them upon receiving your SAR) bring up any evidence e.g. an internal memo where they mention age or anything similarly discriminating. Have a google to see how to submit one. It may burn some bridges though because it's quite a nuisance for an organisation to deal with one but worth doing if you feel strongly and want to pursue this.

You sound bitter, and a little convinced of your own superiority due to your experience. Maybe the manager has had that kind of feed back? To then want to piss them off, seems to indicate/ probably unfairly as it’s just one post, that if you don’t ‘win’ then you get pissy about it. If you’ve asked for feedback, nothing else you can do, except move on.

What a bitter, mean-spirited comment.

I don’t think you should do a subject access request. Firstly, the data in any scoring matrix isn’t your data and would be redacted so at best you will get a scoring matrix with your details on, but no-one else’s. If you get that. Secondly, it’s a strange thing to do/ask, it smacks of “sour grapes” and it will cost you £10and take weeks to be completed.
My advice would be, if you can ask a friendly experienced manager/HR person to look at the application and person spec. I know you think you did well but as others have said, many people have this perception and you might benefit from an objective point of view.
If you are still 7nsatisfied, then go back to the company politely and explain that you’re really disappointed, keen to apply for any future roles and could you have some more detailed feedback on areas to improve? Perhaps written?
I’ve had to tell very strong applicants that they weren’t selected and they absolutely can’t believe it. But sometimes there are just a lot of strong candidates and the bar is set very high.

I’m sorry but you’re being ridiculous. You didn’t get an interview and as harsh as it sounds I think you need to get over it and move on.

I agree that if it’s public sector it’s strange you were not selected for interview. They are usually very mechanical in their recruitment processes. I cannot really see why you would not have passed the sift for interview, unless you weren’t specific enough in evidencing the competencies, making generalised statements instead of referring to specific situations. And as you are very experienced I cannot see that you would have done that.

The application process states that age and ethnic background need to be given

Do they ? Pretty certain (unless it's NI) that can't be demanded ???

Ok so they know of you and your work as it's so specialist but chose not to interview you?

You're annoyed they did choose to interview graduates who they wouldn't know of and wouldn't know of their work?

Your assumption is it's age descrimination as they can't possibly be stronger candidates than you with your reputation and experience?

Maybe... but there's other possibilities, maybe they feel you would clash with other staff there? Maybe they don't like your work as much as someone else's? Maybe they just dipped in a hat and gave interviews on that initially but quickly found who they wanted?

Late in the day I know but consider posting this in Legal or employment, probably get better guidance regards your actual question, I.e. is there any way I can challenge this, rather than here where people will be busy judging you on how your post makes them feel.

OK, so I regularly recruit to a specialist role in the public sector. Our competency-based application forms don't explicitly include age but it's obviously possible to see that someone has been working for a long time through the experience section. Every time I recruit, very very experience people fill the form in badly and don't get interviewed, and that's all there is to it. They don't provide evidence that they have met the competencies in a way that allows the board to sift them through to interview. The board, which includes an HR representative, keeps an agreed record of the sift sheet setting out scores and this is used when we are asked for feedback. It's very clear where the issues are. If further feedback was requested, one of the board would look at the application and elaborate on the areas where evidence was lacking. It's very straightforward and a surprising number of otherwise good candidates fail to fill in the form well unfortunately.

Agreed Frombothsidesnow. I once asked a question about demonstrating two competences and the reply was 'im a very x person who takes pride in their work.' That was it with 250 words allowed. They had so much experience but no knowledge of competencies.

That's exactly the sort of thing I mean, WhiteWalkersWife. Or people who refer you to their precious work online, or who fill 250 words with a name dropping anecdote.

Previous, not precious!

I would be so unimpressed as an employer is someone couldn't handle not getting an interview and started making demands for justification when they'd already received feedback.

And agree with previous posters that I've seen many applications where the very experienced applicant seems to think their list of previous experience is enough and haven't demonstrated that they meet the job spec.

I'm not sure there is much you can do, even if you suspect discrimination.

I've suspected similar, in that as a female in their early 30s (no age on application but degree year and job history is a pretty big indicator) I wasn't getting interviews for permanent roles but ended up going into the exact same roles as a contractor (paid more but no sick leave/maternity etc).

Actually requiring age and ethnicity on an application might well be seen as discriminatory. You don’t have to prove detriment is linked to discrimination if it’s a prima facie case. The employer needs to prove they hadn’t discriminated.
Seek union advice or go for a free half hour with a solicitor. You’ll need to go,through grievance process within your workplace first.