Dd scared of crossing a university picket line

[littlemissrain]

Dd's university is taking part in the strike next week.

Most of her teachers (mostly postgraduate students) will be striking, but none of her lecturers are. 2 of her lectures aren't recorded, so she has to go to them. This will
mean crossing the picket line, and she's terrified that the strikers will call her out/jeer at her as she goes in. She has anxiety problems so is really building this up in her mind. The strikes are, as things stand, going to last for up to a month, possibly longer.

Does anyone have any experience of having to cross picket lines?

I crossed a picket line at work, it was many years ago when picket lines were shown on news as fires to keep people warm outside buildings and people chanting and shouting. The actual picket line I crossed was colleagues who said morning and stood aside, no negativity at all towards me. I was new to the job and on a temporary contract so didn’t feel able or even know if I should join the strike action.

She and you are being a bit pathetic. There are loads of non academic staff working in the university plus of course the academics who aren't in the union. That's hundreds of people going to work as normal on strike days. Why does you daughter think she can't cope walking past a couple of people when all those hundreds of others can?

Also postgraduate students are not employees and don't have university pensions. I doubt many, if any, are in the union so unlikely more than 1 or 2 will be entitled to strike.

"paying about £60 per contact hour..."

Does everyone who arrives at a figure like this just divide £9k by number of contact hours (lectures, seminars etc) the students have over 3 years?

That would assume the 9k per year only pays for teaching hours. In reality, student fees cover much more than that - overheads like estates, classrooms, library, journal subscriptions, admin staff (who manage exams, timetabling, student records), the registry, the specialist student services (disability teams, employability teams, counselling), the finance office, marketing, recruitment, sports facilities, lab equipment, computers and god knows what else. Oh yeah. Vice chancellors' pay.

So, divide 9k equally amongst all the services and overheads, and each contact hour "costs" more like £3.

postgraduate students are not employees and don't have university pensions. I doubt many, if any, are in the union

That's not correct. Many PhD students teach, for example, and when they do, they are employees - they have casual employment contracts and are expected to conduct themselves as employees of the university.

There are also many staff members already working at universities (teaching English as a foreign language for example, or working in marketing or library) who then embark on a PhD - many such people are in the USS scheme.

In my local UCU branch, postgrad students are increasingly taking up UCU membership (it is free). Many of our PhDs with teaching contracts are joining the strike, even though student members of UCU weren't balloted. But they see how the issue affects their own prospects as future academics.

I was going to post exactly what WeSail has said. It's a misconception. The majority of student fees go to VC and other top management, which is what makes it so wrong. Your DD probably won't know, but if any of her lecturers/tutors are postgraduates, hourly paid, recent doctorates or part time, they are likely earning something like £15/h, maybe up to £35/h if the university does not pay anything for marking or preparation. An hour lecture can take easily 10h preparation when you are new and inexperienced, but you are only paid one or two hours for that. The massive fees do not go to teaching staff or just to contact hours. Incidentally, for every contact hour, the student is supposed to do about four hours of independent learning (reading articles, going to library, writing notes...), which they are also paying for, because the library resources are very expensive

Best picket line I’ve ever seen was one comprising of a few BBC staff members and two inflatable Daleks. My toddler thought it was the best day out ever (we were on the way to feed the ducks and the picket was in that general area). She not only crossed the picket, she wove in and out of it, and poked the inflated bits of it thoroughly. Good times!

Said picket line!

WeSail, but there are postgraduates with scholarships linked to teaching, who don't have any working contract, pay taxes, national insurance or pension :( My old university (RG) only had Postgraduate teaching via scholarships (some of which were just partial fees!)

The majority of student fees go to VC and other top management, which is what makes it so wrong.

I assume you're being sarcastic? It's more like 1 or 2%!

Does your DD want a pension? Is she prepared to let others fight for her rights?

She may not work in this sector but the results will impact on us all.

Is this the point in her life when she discovers if something is important you fight for it? Or will she run and hide?

My DS is at uni he has told me in not uncertain terms her will not cross a picket line.

Jedi yes, but those are in a minority.

Most PhDs are 1) self funded with teaching added and contracted as casual labour, 2) funded by scholarships from research councils, their own university or whoever, but those mostly do not cover/pay teaching. They are explicitly stipends/maintenance grants. Teaching has to be paid additionally. That said, not all universities are scrupulous in this regard!

You are referring to Graduate Teaching Assistanship PhDs, where a student gets a lump sum that includes teaching time. Such schemes have to be explicit about this at the outset. I don't know of many places that offer this systematically. More common in the USA.

Mousse
THe trouble with DB pensions is that they ceased to be affordable for employers 25 years ago
which was when the private sector got rid of them.

The public sector kicked the can down the road for much too long
and so the cuts coming through now are unbelievably harsh
but very overdue

The pension changes are essential
but being done very badly
and the Vice Chancellors have got to get their noses out of the trough

Thank you for pointing that out @WeSailTonightForSingapore !!! So irritating to see back-handed comments about how much money is spent on lectures and how entitled students feel because they pay so much. Need to take a look at how much the VCs get - unis are businesses, not places of education, primarily.

She's not so worried about the reaction of the striking staff, more about the rather militant Labour/Marxist societies that are jointing and getting very excited about the strike.

Oh right - your words or hers? What confrontational or violent methods have the labour society used??

As a consumer, she's not technically crossing the picket line. If I was still and UG I would support the strike however - it will massively affect the teaching experiences students receive.

What course/subject area is she studying?

Where do people get off calling the OP and her dd pathetic ffs. Would you say that to her face @carefreeeee

Wesaik to be fair, from the point of view of the person paying the bill it is £60 per contact hour. How the £60 per hour is divided up is up to the university. So to say it costs £60 per contact hour is technically correct.

The USS isn't a fully DB scheme now anyway. They changed that a year or so ago. There's probably a reasonable argument for a further reduction to the point at which it becomes DC, but it's not as badly funded as some Oxford and Cambridge would make out.

Wesaik to be fair, from the point of view of the person paying the bill it is £60 per contact hour. How the £60 per hour is divided up is up to the university. So to say it costs £60 per contact hour is technically correct.

Eh?! So a student should have no concept that their library access, admin/registration, welfare and other vital services to university, have to incur some cost?

By your argument, someone who has more contact time pays less money for each session - but, actually, increased contact time is likely to be for courses like medicine or STEM, which would have lecturers who ARE paid more.

Very odd reasoning - maybe if students understood the strike, and the role of the VC in causing it, they would likely support the strike, and prefer their 9000 a year to go more toward their education

So to say it costs £60 per contact hour is technically correct.

If your only interaction with a service is that contact then yes, you would be technically correct. But I sincerely hope it wouldn't be! I assume they write essays that they then want marked and recorded, sent to externals, degrees awarded, use library and computing facilities, health services, disability support etc.

@TalkinPeace public sector pensions are the last line. If they go all pensions will disappear. UCU is not just fighting for their pensions but for all of us.

mousse
I'm well aware of that
but with some employers paying 36% employer contributions to make up deficits in LGPS schemes
they are not sustainable

and sadly we are still paying the grossly over inflated pensions that were awarded 15 years ago to people who will live another 15 years

if the politicians had backbones they would have dealt with this before it became critical
but now its an emergency that can no longer be ignored

if the cuts are not made now, they will have to be even deeper in another five years

I don't think you can say all DB schemes are unsustainable talkin - it depends on the benefit. Final salaries maybe, but USS isn't a final salary, nor is it totally DB. It took action last year to deal with the deficit. It doesn't need further action taking.

Or the chancellors could pull their noses out of the trough and have a realistic discussion with the UCU.

No one is against discussion but the chancellors want the lecturers to make up the short fall with NO discussion.

So to say it costs £60 per contact hour is technically correct.

It isn't though - for one hour of lecture to take place, the lecturer needs to prep and do their research. For students to physically sit in a classroom, the estates need to be paid to maintain and heat rooms, security to lock up, cleaners to clean, admin staff to schedule room bookings and so on, as has already been pointed out.

Look at other examples of purchased good and services. everyone knows a tin of beans is cheaper in Lidl than n Waitrose, because everyone knows Lidl has fewer overheads (marketing, space etc) - people are aware they aren't paying only for the tin of beans but for production, packaging, marketing.

Can't see why people don't apply the same logic to education.

(Not that I'm comparing education to a tin of beans, mind! It was the first purchased good that popped into my head, but swap it for any good or service and the same applies, and let's not kid ourselves, higher education has become a commodity).

titchy
Are there any public sector funded schemes that are not in deficit?
Just that when I went to an Employers meeting we were told that the 18% deficit on our county one it was mid range .....

According to this
www.uss.co.uk/how-uss-is-run/running-uss/annual-reports-and-accounts
The USS is 17% underfunded
and there are more deferred and pensioner members than active members
so it is NOT sustainable under the current funding formula
Page 104 shows that they need 20 years to close the deficit

Does your DD want a pension? Is she prepared to let others fight for her rights?

Good grief, give a young woman with anxiety issues a break. It's the social situation she's finding challenging, not the politics.

She's not so worried about the reaction of the striking staff, more about the rather militant Labour/Marxist societies that are jointing and getting very excited about the strike.

I find that recognisable, but they won't actually bite