To want the Gideons to get the #### out of my child's school

[PatriarchyPersonified]

As I have made clear on threads on here in the past, I am an atheist (I'm actually a strong anti-theist) and I believe in the secularisation of society. (i.e religion can be there for people who want it but it should be irrelevant to anybodies day to day life unless they want to make it relevant.)

I believe that children should be taught about religions in school, as part of a comprehensive RE syllabus, and particularly about Christianity, as I believe from a cultural and historical perspective, it is impossible to fully understand the history and culture of the UK without reference to the bible. I would feel the same way about the Qu'ran if I lived in an Arab country btw.

What I am not happy about is that my oldest DC (12) has just had the bloody Gideon Society hosting an assembly in their school and dishing out Bibles! School is not the place for this. There is a reason why religious groups always target schools and prisons, its where the easy targets are.

*To argue on about anything else requires some faith of some kind
*
It absolutely does not require "faith". We have evidence for the things we believe, usually. And no, you cannot trot out the argument that, "Oh, well, we don't know anything really" because, in fact we do. Even if I'm a brain in a vat, hallucinating the universe it's still a universe that produces patterns & those patterns can be used to create models and make predictions...aka science.

"Faith" is an excuse used in place of evidence & it is fundamentally untrue to try and pretend that, when all is said and done, it's all about "faith". No.

You are engaging in the kind of pseudo-intellectual bullshit that sounds deeply, deeply profound but is essentially meaningless purely to get over the embarrassment of believing in an imaginary sky man who can read your thoughts.

If scientists can produce verifiable data to prove the BB - even if the BB is imaginary and so is the data - then you ought to be able to do the same with your sky man. You can't, and you know it.

I don't use the "sky fairy/spaghetti monster" terms because i find them a bit tedious and unimaginative. But that doesn't stop Christians telling me that I must have no moral compass, and that the only reason I speak out as an atheist is because I have a "God shaped hole" in my life I am trying to fill. Not to mention all the "what are yoh so scared of?" bollocks.

JaneyEJones

Why? If a belief is ludicrous, it gets mocked. Do you defend flat earthers?

As Christopher Hitchens said, "the best trick the religious have ever pulled is to convince the rest of us that they should somehow be exempted from mockery for their ridiculous beliefs"

Personally I wouldn't mock a flat earther or anyone, particularly not to their face.

You are engaging in the kind of pseudo-intellectual bullshit that sounds deeply, deeply profound but is essentially meaningless purely to get over the embarrassment of believing in an imaginary sky man who can read your thoughts. It's meaningless to you because you don't get it. I didn't used to either.

Vitalogy

So we can only understand if we already believe? And you don't see the problem with the logic of that argument?

Do you believe in ghosts? What if I told you that you can only see a ghost if you already believe in them? Would you be happy with that as an explanation?

Obviously not because it's bollocks.

It's what we tell children to get them to believe in fairy stories. That's actually where the whole 'sky fairy' thing comes from, because the arguments used to justify them are so similar.

So we can only understand if we already believe? If you use yourself as the measure you can know.

Another Christian bashing thread, there's a change. Just be thankful you live in a country that is tolerant to any belief you have. If you lived in somewhere like Iran you wouldn't be able to speak out against the Koran and get away with it. What on earth do you think will happen if your kids read the bible.

Another Christian bashing thread, there's a change. shockJust be thankful you live in a country that is tolerant to any belief you have. If you lived in somewhere like Iran you wouldn't be able to speak out against the Koran and get away with it. What on earth do you think will happen if your kids read the bible.

Yeah, it's so tolerant because it's not an actively religious country you get that right? Not because Christians are so charitable to not cut off people's heads for reading the wrong book.

Really, what all Christians tell you that? Well if someone said that to me I would say something sarcastic in return. However no one has ever told me or other non religious people I know that we've got god shaped holes in our lives. You've been unlucky, but there are intolerant arses everywher

I don't go up to Christians in RL to tell them off for believing in sky fairies. The Christians I am friends with in RL would not be happy with children being indoctrinated in schools. That's the problem with these threads, they tend to bring out the sorts who think they are sharing "facts" with children. Those sorts are going to get angry responses

So where's the damn problem then, no it isn't "actively religious" where heads are cut off but it is a Christian country where bibles are given to kids. Nice balance i'd say.

I used to get out of all religious talks by telling my Mother they were Catholic. Later, I just forged her signature.

I'm with you OP, but I guess I would focus more on teaching critical skills than I would on complaining about them visiting.

Or, you could work with your daughter to ask some incisive questions such as 'I really like the Song of Solomon. Can you tell me more about it?'.

So where's the damn problem then, no it isn't "actively religious" where heads are cut off but it is a Christian country where bibles are given to kids. Nice balance i'd say.

That's your bar, that's a nice balance? Anything less than heads chopped off.

How about this, stick to teaching your own children about your imaginary friend?

It's very simple, I will tell my children all the reasons religion is woo, sexist and homophobic and frankly dangerous the more it is pushed at them school. Everytime I have to correct something they told a child. They're going to tell your children this.

Now unlike the crap you peddle to your children, as your children get older they will see what my children are saying is at least accurate.
Then you have to argue with that. You won't win. It's why Christianity is failing.

Vitalogy

If you use yourself as the measure you will know

That doesn't mean anything!

OK. How about teaching your own children how to worship your own god and leave other people to teach their children how to worship theirs? Or why they don't worship any.

That's your bar, that's a nice balance? Anything less than heads chopped off.
Don't be ridiculous, of course it's not my "bar", but i was making the point that in the UK, compared to a lot of countries, particularly where Islam is the religion, we have a fine balance. It is NOT forced on us. We are tolerant to all religions, which is as it should be.

If your five year old was talking to themselves and saying BigBob (who you can't see) was going to sort everything for him or help him score a goal.. it would be an imaginary friend.

Adults praying or getting on their knees at football games to thank god isn't an imaginary friend.

Just out of interest what would count as actual credible evidence for God, the Buddha the Tao or indeed any religious belief?

That doesn't mean anything! To you maybe. It means something to me and many others though. I'm not religious btw.

bertrand who are you actually telling to "teach your own children how to worship your own God"

That's your bar, that's a nice balance? Anything less than heads chopped off.Don't be ridiculous, of course it's not my "bar", but i was making the point that in the UK, compared to a lot of countries, particularly where Islam is the religion, we have a fine balance. It is NOT forced on us. We are tolerant to all religions, which is as it should be.

You don't need to teach things at school that aren't facts. It is simply not needed.That is what church is for. Tolerance for religion should be practised in the social sphere it should not enter politics, or anything state sponsored like schools. You are not tolerant of my not being a Christian.

I fucking guarantee half the problem is that people want the school to teach their children about Christianity so they don't have to go to church themselves.