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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To have not picked the Russell group university?

30 replies

Mrsknackered · 15/02/2018 09:42

Read a couple of threads recently about 'top universities' and 'Russell Groups' and wondered if I've made a mistake.

The Russell Group was 27th this year for the course in the rankings but the non-Russell group was 4th. Overall, I much preferred the non one anyway, but I've seen so much recently about the importance of it

I got into both (and another non-Russell) and picked the one that ranked 4th.

Have I made a mistake? Do you think it still matters so much to a mature student?

OP posts:

MincemeatTart · 15/02/2018 09:47

I think what matters is that it’s the right course for you. In some areas non Russell group are better - graphic arts is renowned at Bournemout, for example.
Russell group are respected and give advantages in certain fields. Milk rounds target Russell Groups. Networks may be more influential from Russell Group ...but thousands attend and not everyone benefits from elite networks.

AHungryMum · 15/02/2018 09:50

No.....not unreasonable at all. Imo the strength of the department is more important than the strength of the university overall, particularly if the course is in any way vocational. The indisutry you are seeking to enter will know how strong your chosen Uni is for that course.

It's also very important that you pick somewhere that is right for you, as you will be happier there and more likely to thrive....a girl in our sixth form turned down Cambridge for this reason as she didn't get in to her chosen college, she got pooled, interviewed by another college that was an all girls one, didn't think she'd be happy in that environment, went to Durham instead and was very happy there and got a 2:1.

Congratulations anyway - you've obviously done very well in your Uni applications. Good luck for your degree! :)

Eltonjohnssyrup · 15/02/2018 10:01

I started my degree at a Russell Group and absolutely hated it. I got pregnant half way through second year so postponed rest of course and finished with the OU.

All the lecturers were interested in was their writing and research and they treated students like an inconvenience. My tutor actually used to keep two aggressive dogs in her office so her students would be too frightened to open the door and bother her. There were two or three lecturers who were okay, the rest were an arrogant bunch of arseholes.

If it didn't feel right you probably did the right thing.

Eltonjohnssyrup · 15/02/2018 10:03

And the office staff would lie to cover up for them to student services. It was shit.

Dungeondragon15 · 15/02/2018 10:07

I wouldn't necessary always opt for Russell Group but I would probably give it more weight than rankings as these often are based partly on student rankings which I don't think is a good indicator. Employers are more likely to be impressed by your degree if it comes from what they perceive to be a "good" university.

Dungeondragon15 · 15/02/2018 10:08

student rankings student satisfaction scores

sushilover17 · 15/02/2018 10:10

what were the universities? some unis are good but not on Russell Group. But in general, you do reap the rewards of going to a RG in my experience. It was a lot easier for me to get into a high ranking firm and a training contract, I actually got my job offer in first year.

Allthewaves · 15/02/2018 10:18

Really depends on your chosen career. If your heading for nhs then Russell group is t going to give you huge advantages

FizzyGreenWater · 15/02/2018 10:19

Depends a little bit on what you want to do later.

Which unis and which course?

Bluntness100 · 15/02/2018 10:20

Russell group do have advantages as others have pointed out. But there are some unis that aren't Russel group but renound for their course. Ultimately you need to go to the one that's best for you.

My daughter is at a Russell group and hasn't experienced what Elton did, that sounds awful. There was an issue with a seminar leader at one point, (wrong on points of law, not turning up for group) but it was quickly spotted and the law professors stepped in and redid it personally with them just to be sure they had what was needed. My understanding is they are very supportive with the students.

janinlondon · 15/02/2018 10:32

It may be unreasonable to choose to believe one of the (many) commercial ranking systems over an academic ranking system that exists already (Russell group is in itself a ranking system). What is NOT unreasonable at all is to choose the university you liked best, and which you think is the best fit for you, which is what you should always do and what you have done.

BrigitsBigKnickers · 15/02/2018 10:41

Totally depends on the subject. My DD is at a non RG but well respected Uni. But it is the top in the country for her
subject and employers flock there to snap up their graduates.
Several of her friends have graduated last summer from RG unis and have not yet secured decent jobs ( think bar work and Dominoes Pizza)

Eltonjohnssyrup · 15/02/2018 10:57

I'm sure lots of RG are great. But I ignored my gut feeling and assumed as it was RG it would be good which I regret as it was right. I just mean if the OP didn't feel it was right for her then just taking it because you feel you should go for RG is probably not a good idea.

The one thing I would say about RG unis (from experience working in them too) is that research does tend to come before students. This has been recognised recently and a new system set up which ranks actual teaching of students alone, and some RG group unis did incredibly badly in it particularly for certain subjects.

Students tend to be high achievers and there is an expectation they will get on with things. So if things go wrong like pregnancy or illness or caring responsibilities or money often the support falls well below par as academic staff view it as a failure on the part of the student. The uni I was at is having to answer some very difficult questions at the moment re a high student suicide rate and hasn't really come up with any satisfactory answers.

Personally I would advise students who may require more support to check very carefully before going to an RG.

Eltonjohnssyrup · 15/02/2018 11:12

Just as an example, there was a guy on my course who came from a council estate, his Mum was a dinnerlady and single mother and he had several younger siblings. His bank made an error which left him without funds for quite some time. His tutor just literally couldn't compute that somebody attending that university couldn't simply ask their parents to sub them and was very reluctant to be helpful.

Dungeondragon15 · 15/02/2018 11:23

His tutor just literally couldn't compute that somebody attending that university couldn't simply ask their parents to sub them and was very reluctant to be helpful

That is to do with the personality of a particular tutor though. It doesn't have anything to do with Russel Group universities unless you are suggesting that tutors there have different personalities than those at non Russell Group universities!

Dljlr · 15/02/2018 11:37

unless you are suggesting that tutors there have different personalities than those at non Russell Group universities!

I've done one degree at non RG, one at an RG uni and midway through PhD with non RG as well as working full time as an academic at a non RG. In my experiences both as a student and professionally, lecturers at RG places do tend to have different priorities, values and attitudes towards students, yes. Their main focus is on research, teaching is often viewed as an inconvenience, as mentioned by a PP, and there's a marked difference between attitudes towards student support and widening participation. Snobbery (academic and economic) lives on amongst the academics at many RGs and this really does impact student experience IME.

BarbarianMum · 15/02/2018 11:42

I think its worth trying to get into a university that has a good reputation for the subject you're studying. I think that's more important than whether its a Russel Group uni tbh

Original poster

Mrsknackered · 15/02/2018 11:43

The RG was Leeds. The non we're Bradford and Huddersfield.

The course is child nursing, I went with Bradford (I've already started, sorry, didn't make that clear)

I had my heart set on Leeds to begin with, have a lot of friends who have studied there/still studying there and then I got a really horrible feeling from it at the interviewing process and one of the tutors was very rude.

OP posts:

Dungeondragon15 · 15/02/2018 11:47

In my experiences both as a student and professionally, lecturers at RG places do tend to have different priorities, values and attitudes towards students, yes.

I have worked in many Russell Group and non-Russell group universities and obviously was a student at one (although they were just called universities as opposed to Polytechnics or Colleges in those days).

Whilst it is true that many of the academics at Russell Group universities will be more interested in research than teaching, I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. I also don't think it makes a difference as to whether they can understand that not all students have well-off parents who can support them. That is dependent on an individuals personality and not the university they work at.

Degrees are not like A levels or O levels in that where you get them makes a big difference in their value to employers. I don't think that whether a university is Russell group or not is the main factor. However, I think that a universities reputation in a particular subject is more important than whether students have a nice experience and give it a high satisfaction score.

Eltonjohnssyrup · 15/02/2018 11:52

Yes I am actually. I 've worked at both types of uni. At RG unis tutors are much more likely to have gone straight from a grammar or private school to a top uni then into academic work without so much as a Saturday job and have mainly dealt with students in the same boat.

Tutors at the former Poly where I also worked were much more likely to have experiences with a wider social range of people and also more experience dealing with students whose experience isn't straightforward.

Put it this way, at the poly I dealt with students doing social care related degrees. If the same pastoral care as at the RG Uni had been offered by tutors we would probably only have had 3 people left on the course and the rest would have had to drop out!

By contrast at RG unis they can get away with it because so few students come from underprivileged backgrounds without much family support it might just mean one or two drop outs.

I'm sure there are exceptions, but in my experience pastoral care is often viewed as an inconvenience at RG unis when others view it as an integral part of their job.

Spam88 · 15/02/2018 11:54

I've been to two RG unis and haven't had experiences anything like the negative ones people describe here. I think each university, department and tutor is just different, and those are far bigger factors than whether a uni is in the RG or not.

OP, for your course I can't imagine it would make a difference, and regardless I think it's better to go for a uni that's a better fit for you.

Eltonjohnssyrup · 15/02/2018 11:58

I do know of some exceptions myself including an engineering academic who has a learning disability and does tons to help out
students with similar challenges. But I've worked with far more academics who saw students who needed support as pests they hoped would drop out at the RG Uni.

AHungryMum · 15/02/2018 12:10

Bradford is pretty good for medical stuff iirc? My brother studied Pharmacy there and back then it was ranked second highest in the country for pharmacy iirc (admittedly this was 20 years ago!) If they have a strong reputation for your course then you will be fine I suspect. Plus, don't we have a shortage of nurses anyway in this country? Something tells me you're not going to struggle to find work when you graduate! :)

Dungeondragon15 · 15/02/2018 12:12

That may be true in your subject but definitely not in all. e.g. not in my subject having worked/been a student in the field for 30 years. The academics from the Russel Group have been more high achieving with regard to research during their career but that isn't dependent on the school they went to or whether they had a Saturday job.

As for "pastoral care", I appreciate that some student may need support but many (perhaps most) don't need pastoral care and the main thing for them will be getting a degree that will be considered highly by employers.

jay55 · 15/02/2018 12:18

For many vocational courses the brand of university matters a lot less.

I also interviewed at Leeds and hated it but went to a different RG uni (by chance I’d never heard of RG until years after graduation).

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