Or is dh? Preschool issue.

[kevinkeeganlovesme]

So it's more of a wwyd actually. My way or dh's?

I've posted about this before.

Ds goes to a very very small and remote preschool. We aren't in the UK.

Due to its small size kid's from the infant toddler program sometimes come over to ds' class when it's not got many kids in. (This is relevant.)

It's come to my attention that the preschool teacher has been taking the class out on trips to the shop or cafe.

I have two issues with this, we're never told beforehand. I did sign an annual permission slip for excursions (now kicking myself) but I assumed we'd be told prior to each trip. In local licensing rules it states guardians must be informed prior to a trip so I think even though we signed permission we should still be told beforehand when and where they're going.

My second issue is that these trips involve a 15 minute walk along a main road (30mph) with no pavement. She 9 times out of 10 goes alone. Last time she had a 2 year old she was carrying and was trusting 5 other kids (one 2.5 the others all 4 years) to walk hand in hand. I think this is insanity. There needs to be at least two adults.

I didn't send him last week while I worked out what to do.

We live in a very small and tight knit community. The teacher is very popular and actually very good friends with three of the other children's parents. It's not quite as simple as just making a complaint to management. (Incidentally, I'm holding management of the preschool responsible for the lack of training she's given rather than her.)

Our issue is, I think we should approach her and tell her we don't want our child going on trips without our prior permission and without two people walking with them.

Dh wants to go to the manager. I feel like this will get her back up and make her dislike us. But I see his point that it's a policy issue and should be taken up higher up in the school. I just don't want her to be blindsided and upset at it coming from someone else when she's kind of a friend.

I'm an outsider here, everyone else has lived here since birth and I've struggled to fit in over the last few years I've lived here. I also suffer hugely from social anxiety so am aware I'm overthinking it hugely and tying myself in knots so no biscuits please .

More than one teacher does attend but one teacher will have three children each - so one holding teachers hand and then the next holding child's hand etc I don't like this as I don't feel comfortable that DD can reliably hold onto another child's hand (she doesn't do as she's told very often) I know they can't have 1:1 adult/child but it does still worry me.

You'll find that they'll work out carefully who has which children. You quickly get a good idea of who reliably holds hands and who doesn't.
And a lot of the time kids behave differently with care staff. I've had parents tell me how much their child doesn't/listen or behave and the child is an angel for us. And vice-versa!! Organising the groups is often the most time consuming part of a trip.

In the UK this would be a safeguarding issue as the ratios for supervision are pretty much set in stone at a preschool.

As you aren't in the UK I'd have a google to see what the health and safety requirements are where you are, and then you'll know whether these activities are actually bad practice or just not to your taste.

Why not make the complaint about the management. Let's call the teacher Ms X. So your complaint is "You, the management, are being very unfair on Ms X by not sending someone with her on these trips to help out. I can only imagine how stressed she must be, being responsible for so many children on that main road."

What if one child needs the toilet or something as basic as that? Can she fit them all in the cafe toilet? I think there’s a risk she’d have to leave some of them unattended in certain scenarios. There should be 2 staff members

I think I’d go to the manager rather than the teacher. The teacher will just be following the guidelines given about ratios on outings so she might not be able to change it herself. Manager is more likely to be able to agree a change to the policy

What if one child needs the toilet or something as basic as that? Can she fit them all in the cafe toilet? I think there’s a risk she’d have to leave some of them unattended in certain scenarios. There should be 2 staff members

going into the bathroom alone with a child would be an issue anyway.

And the other issue with this scenario would be - what if she needs the toilet? She'd either need to take at least the 2yos with her (not appropriate) or leave them all unattended (not appropriate).

I would probably speak to her directly to give her the heads up. Something along the lines of "I appreciate everything you do and I'm concerned that you don't have enough help. I'm going to bring it up with management but wanted to give you the heads up as I didn't want you to think I was complaining about you but rather your lack of support"

Keeps it friendly as you want and management involvement which your dh wants.

Dh spoke to the director. He didn't know this was happening and isn't happy. It is actually law that we're informed of trips out of school beforehand. As to the adult per child thing it's 1:4. Which I think is ridiculous for all of the reasons you've all mentioned. So ds won't be going in on days they have trips out.

1:4 ratio is fairly normal and safe, but walking down a road with no pavement needs 1:2, holding hands.

What would happen if she fell and knocked herself out. Unlikely but these things do happen.

I'd query the ratio. I don't know where you are but if the have legal ratios and they have a requirement for parents to know there's decent child protection/safety rules. 1:4 is an unusual ratio for under 3/4's.

Also why didn't he know? How does a member of staff take 6 kids out of the building and the boss doesn't know?

I'd be after a few more answers tbh. He should have known.

It's 1:8 for 2-5 year olds in the building.

1:4 on trips. Which I agree is fine in theory but when out I think there should be a minimum of two adults. And 1:2 on a road with no pavement.

The director is part time. Only in the building a few hours a week. It's not ideal but the school can't afford to pay for anymore.

There is another member of staff that floats from the baby room to the older room. The teacher doesn't get on with her so I suspect that's why she goes on the outings without her.

Is that their ratio or the legal ratio? I'm surprised that 2yos are included in the same ratio as 5yos.

Halting the ration on trips is quite standard, it's the starting ratio that's the issue here.

So is she generally alone with the children most days then? Tbh that, plus the fact she did something so stupid (and against even their lax rules) would have me looking for another place.

I think as to whether you are being u reasonable, comes down to the country and community you’re in. Do other parents see this as the norm, are they happy with it? Are you the only one who is uncomfortable with the situation? You can protect your own child- but if the other parents are happy with the circumstances, and this is how things are done, I hope that they are able to see your concernes are not a criticism, but as a safety concern. If you need to stay here due to location- can you not just take back consent and have your child left behind at the centre? I probably would have talked to her first, not the director, but I hope you get a good resolution.

One of the nurseries we looked at didn't have any outdoor space (was above a soft play centre on a retail park) but they proudly stated that they took them to the local park (across a busy dual carriageway with no underpass) or to the local supermarket to do some shopping!

Didn't sit well with me so we chose a much nicer nursery (that has their own garden so No need for outside trips)

Incidently the nursery we didn't go to is currently inadequate and has been given a set tine to improve before being shut down after an 'incident'. Yet to find out what this was though. Our current nurseryvhas been inundated with parents now wanting to change.

OP - are you in Sweden?

In the UK it's one adult per 2 children at that age. That's very dangerous. Also, you should definitely be given a permission slip to sign for every trip.

I can’t see that you could have done anything different. This needed addressing. It’s not safe and you can’t sacrifice your sons safety for anything can you? So difficult though. Bloody rubbish for you!

I think you need to repeat to yourself a few bright and breezey phrases that refuse to take any blame or feel guilty. Don’t be cringing and apologising for having a meeting!

Perfectly symmetrical

No it isn't 1 adult to 2 children and legally a permission slip is not needed for each trip
The ratio legally in the U.K. does not change for trips

I've helped out on preschool trips and they insisted on 1:2.

We're in America so rules differ hugely state to state. I've just found out somebody else complained yesterday too so that makes me feel better!