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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to not understand the logic behind Leo Varadkar abortion speach

35 replies

bluepears · 11/02/2018 22:19

yes i understand hes pro choice but why would he believing there is nothing wrong with abortion want abortion to be 'rare' surely if you believed there is nothing wrong with abortion there would be no need for it to be rare. is there any other examples of someone believing an act to be okay then saying it should not happen a lot.
does him wanting it to be rare imply that in certain situations abortion is wrong?
aibu to think the rare part of his speech makes no logic
www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/safe-legal-and-rare-full-text-of-taoiseach-s-abortion-speech-1.3373468

OP posts:
splendide · 12/02/2018 06:54

there is no other context were you think an act is ok but then say it should be rare.

I know what you’re saying but I think there are other medical type things like this. Obesity surgery? Liver transplant after alcoholism?

bluepears · 12/02/2018 06:54

'He didn't say all abortions should be rare, he said abortions after 12 weeks should be 'safe, legal and rare'. Presumably because, in this day and age, pregnancies should be able to be detected before 12 weeks in the majority of cases.' he did say that verbatim

'If the amendment is approved in a Referendum, abortion in Ireland will become safe, legal and rare,' and its only before 12 weeks not after

OP posts:
roundaboutthetown · 12/02/2018 06:59

bluepears - this is Ireland we are talking about. It's hardly going to jump from no abortions to abortion on demand right up to the day of delivery.

LonginesPrime · 12/02/2018 07:13

Ah, apologies OP - he did say that too; I was looking at the end of his speech where he referred to post-12 week abortions and repeated that same phrase (the ol' three-worder which will look great on the banners and be easy to chant..).

I agree with PPs though - no-one sets out to have an abortion, do they? I'm pro-choice but I hope I never end up in a situation where I need to make that choice, and wouldn't wish that predicament on anyone else either.

I can't imagine that many people are pro-choice because they love abortions and want there to be more of them.

CaptainHarville · 12/02/2018 07:23

My friend had a termination after the baby was shown to have such serious abnormalities that it would never have survived. The baby was very much wanted and my friend was devastated. But being able to have the abortion at 20ish weeks rather than have to wait until full term saved her the pain of several months of carrying a baby with no chance of survival. I'm pro-choice and in my friends position would have made the same decision I would still have been heart broken about it.

I don't see how being pro-choice means that you also believe abortion to be without any issues. I would hope that my friend's experience is rare.

ChattyLion · 12/02/2018 08:29

I think he’s doing his best in a very difficult political environment to encourage public support for the pro choice option in a vote, but ‘make it rare’ is a short term argument and ultimately not helpful to anyone politically.

I find the ‘make it rare’ argument really undermining and disrespectful of women’s agency. Nobody sets out to need an abortion or treats it trivially. It’s not a nice process and it’s not made easy to get even when it’s safe and it’s legal.

‘Making it rare’ (...’rare’ relative to what?) is mealy mouthed politician speak to appeal to ‘soft’ anti choice people. it implies a load of ‘excess’ abortions must be going on.

All it says to me is ‘I am a politician trying to appeal to everyone who doesn’t understand women’s lives’. There are just multiple complex reasons why an abortion becomes needed or wanted, that can’t be solved by policy and health service changes- though some of these will be susceptible to policy initiatives to an extent. Campaigning for Full contraception coverage, choice and education for all should be a given.

But there is not some kind of ideal acceptable number of abortions, that is bonkers. Abortion is not ‘too easy’ to access, and contraception education, availability and use is no where near 100 %. But these are not the only reasons abortion is needed anyhow.
Being pro choice is about supporting a woman’s right to choose when or if to become a mother, which is always an individual decision in the context of that time and her situation.

Politicians need to respect that and not use abortion as some kind of political dog whistle topic. I lost respect for Hillary campaigning on ‘safe legal and rare’ too. They must get splinters in their arses sitting on the fence like that.

Problem is that he is going to find that his vision of making it ‘rare’ comes back to bite him politically and allows anti-choice people to make hay. If abortion is provided in Ireland, the women who previously would have travelled to get an abortion will take it up. But another group of women who see that the service is now available and that social attitudes are changing etc will ALSO over time be more likely to consider having an abortion themselves. Their daughters will grow up in an environment where abortion is more acceptable and available.
So it’s likely for decades that abortion uptake could significantly grow. It will really not ‘become rare’ down from some made up ideal number. Unless he means they will make it ‘rare’ by rationing the procedure or make it hard to access which would be shit and not pro choice.

Better to say: let’s accept that abortions happen, legal or not, let’s stop women dying, getting hurt, taking illegal drugs, getting into debt, having to travel overseas etc to end a pregnancy and make it safe and legal as early as possible and as late as necessary.’ AND also loudly campaign for SRE, full and accessible contraceptive cover, research to improve contraceptive methods available and so on.

Sorry that was long.

makeourfuture · 12/02/2018 08:36

Woman's choice.

Maybe83 · 12/02/2018 08:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WhiteWalkersWife · 12/02/2018 09:15

I understand why you see judgement op but i think its in the eye of the beholder. I dont see anything wrong in using those words personally. Of course abortion should always be available and readily so, but if you can improve the contraceptive side of it then you dont have to put anyone through an operation especially as it may be a struggle to get it.

Id prefer that mastectomys were rare after seeing a friend have a double one. It was very much needed but she didnt want it and had she been diagnosed sooner...it doesnt mean im suggesting restricting them but seeing my poor friend i wouldnt want that for anyone if it could be found sooner.

Is he planning on campaigning for better contraception/support to use it and more readily available abortions?

lottiegarbanzo · 12/02/2018 09:31

I don't understand why you don't understand. Surely no-one sees abortion as desirable per se, do they? Therefore, surely everyone would prefer that abortion was needed less rather than more.

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