To think to say wearing the hijab brings you 'respect' and 'security'.

[Eltonjohnssyrup]

Just to start off - this is not a 'ban the burka' thread. I respect the right of all women to wear exactly what they want be that a burka, a bivouac, a hijab, short shorts or a bikini.

It was World Hijab Day yesterday. An event which was promoted by government agencies including the Home Office.

The organisation promoting this event has claimed that the hijab brings you 'liberation'. I'm fine with that. I can see how it would feel liberating not to have to worry about bad hair days or styling every day. And feeling liberated is a personal thing. One woman might feel liberated wearing a full length skirt and long sleeves, one might feel liberated in a bodycon dress and bikini.

But then they went on to say that the hijab brings you 'respect and security'. I feel really uncomfortable about this. It implies that there is a type of respect which women who do not wear the hijab are unworthy of. That showing our hair makes us unworthy of automatic respect.

And 'security', security from what? Harassment? Rape? Terror attacks? This sort of language is moving the responsibility for women's security onto women by saying 'wear this and you'll be secure'. In other words, don't wear it and you're taking risks, asking for it, sending out a signal it is okay to grope or harrass you.

This makes me really uncomfortable, especially in the era of me too. AIBU to think that this campaign should be moderating it's language to avoid tarring those who don't wear it with negative associations? And that the government and Home Office shouldn't be endorsing an organisation that uses it? It's not sending a message of 'women are free to wear what they like' and instead is sending a message that if women want to safe and respected they must cover up.

Oh right malaguena and poor just like that you were 'safe and respected'

I hate seeing the girls in summer in their summer uniforms with long sleeves and leggings underneath and scarf on their head. It's absolutely not necessary.

Any woman should be free to wear what she likes and feels comfortable in. Having said that, outfits that cover a person's face must be banned. Would it be OK for anyone to walk about in balaclavas and other face masks? So why is face covering an option?

I agree OP. I believe a woman (and a man) should be able to wear whatever they like and observe their religion through garments if they wish. I have zero issue with women wearing Islamic dress and would actively go against any government who tried to outlaw this.

But, I agree entirely with the problematic nature of saying it brings respect and security/safety. That's dodgy territory to imply that a garment leads to respect and security that should already be there whatever you're wearing. It flies pretty close to implying that if you don't wear hijab you're less likely to be respected or safe or entitled to those things.

I have similar problems with the idea of 'modest' dress being called that. Because the flip side, immodest, is a negative term. Modest is good, immodest is bad. It implies to me that anyone not dressing 'modestly' therefore is immodest. I resent companies that sell suitable clothing like M&S using the term modest as by default it means the other items they sell that don't cover you are immodest and so are the women wearing them. I'm really uncomfortable with the term modest, but I also see it has different connotations within religion and perhaps has developed into a term that simply means 'suitable dress for the religion' rather than the English language meaning which has the flip side of immodest. Maybe.

These threads always make me wonder why nobody is up in arms about nuns wearing a head covering.

I am in a Muslim country and I see hijab-wearing women sharing cartoons of women being hung by their tongues being tortured in hell for not wearing hijab (alongside other 'crimes', such as women talking to men other than their husband, being vain, etc.)

The idea that it brings you respect is nonsense. It's a tool to oppress women first and foremost.

If people want to live in the U.K. they need to intergrate, speak English and dress like we do

How do we dress, exactly? I thought the wonderful think about the U.K. was having the freedom to express yourself through clothing. If I choose to express my religious an cultural values through my clothing, you’d just refuse to have anything to do with me?

I’m white and non-Muslim - am I allowed to wear long clothing and a headscarf?

There’s an awful lot of biogoted and racism commentary on this thread. If a women chooses to wear a hijab that is entirely up to her. It’s not up to you to police her clothing as a means to liberate her - just in the same way it’s not up to men to dictate what she must wear if she wants to remain part of her culture.

In the U.K. we should be giving women support to make their own decisions. If a women does feel liberated and respected in a hijab then so be it - I feel respected and liberated in some of my power-outfits for work. Am I not allowed to feel like that because it excludes women who are wearing jeans?

We should be working to encourage all women to feel however they want about themselves in what ever clothes they like.

And safe should just be a societal norm (I know it’s not at the moment, but all women should feel that regardless).

malaguena
lying doesn’t help anybody

I agree with pisacake.

If the women who wear it are saying themselves that it brings liberation respect and security I'm afraid I can't see that in ANY way as a positive thing at all because it indicates that they know (within their community / religious community) that they will not be respected if they didn't wear one (which is about avoiding judgement and wanting acceptance, it's not about respect). Seems to me it's about relief at having conformed to expectations of others, not a genuinely positive, self-generated, fully autonomous decision, it's being driven by outside influence (or so it seems). I'm sure that's not the case for everyone but I would love to know that if you did come from a community where the hijab was worn by virtually all women, and you didn't wear it, what would things be like for that person??

Turkaddin respect should be mutual. Have you been brainwashed that you need a man's respect to survive?

How do women celebrate an item of clothing that will have another woman arrested or worse for removal. Choosing to wear clothing is for me what this an open should be about. But avoiding the difficult conversation about clothing and the misogynistic and violent force of clothing should be addressed not celebrated.

I would love to know that if you did come from a community where the hijab was worn by virtually all women, and you didn't wear it, what would things be like for that person??

www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/02/tehran-hijab-protest-iranian-police-arrest-29-women

malaguena I live in a Muslim area and have been spat at for wearing a sleeveless summer dress before, at best I often get some quite dark looks from both men and women of that faith. I dress fairly normally and since I am now middle aged not particularly revealing stuff either. It doesn't make me feel safe or respected. I've never had this from any other grouping just from this one. The Jehova's have never hassled me to dress more modestly or the people from the church across the road! There are very few muslim women in my area who do not wear the hijab or a niqab.

lazyarse123 I am not Muslim. I don't wear a hijab. I don't need to wear one to get anyone's respect and yes I see them as oppressive.

I think women who choose to wear modest dress, including hijab but not exclusively Muslim women, have an equal right to feel more confident and secure because they are dressed as they want to be. They are not alone. Many Jews and fundamentalist Christians believe modest dress is important. I think Quakers do as well.

Of course women should feel secure however they are dressed but we certainly shouldn’t be suggesting that the feelings of those that choose modesty are invalid.

It was probably clumsily done

The the fact is that the bans , the rows and the protests relate primarily to the full cover veils .

The hijab is a less drastic and more common way for women to show their faith and heritage

I think to collapse this day with:
France banning the FULL veil
Woman in Iran protesting the FULL veil is inaccurate

I also feel that people use feminism to rally this cry but for me it reads like an excuse to let their islamaphobia raise it’s head

Justanotherlurker, I apologise, I should have been clearer with that comments in that it was referring specifically to the UK rather than another country. What would be the reaction here in this country if one out of 200 hijab-wearing Muslim women said actually, I don't want to wear one?

When travelling in the ME I like wearing a hijaab and long loose tunic over baggy trousers. I liked not having to do my hair in the morning, worry about what to wear/do I have a VPL/is this top flattering/do I need a different bra with this etc. It was all about comfort. No pressure to look groomed or attractive because all the other women were in baggy tunic and trousers with their hair covered too. And it was nice not to have men checking out my body, I felt invisible.

I wouldn't want to live like that but it did feel liberating for a few months!

If people want to live in the U.K. they need to intergrate, speak English and dress like we do - dressing like this is virtue signalling - or more likely forced upon them by men

The whole beauty of Western Europe is living where people are FREE

To be gay
To be Jewish
To wear a veil
To wear hippy gear
To be a Catholic
To be a Buddhist
To wear African dresses
To be a Nun
To wear bodycon
To eat and buy and try foods from around the world

What a depressing thought and view

sportinguista - same.

I worked at one point in an area of the main big city where I live which is predominantly Muslim, very multi cultural and multi racial (which, can I just say, I absolutely loved and my job involved improvements with access to jobs and better housing etc so I was actually quite involved with the community and an advocate for opportunity for this area) and was dressed in a simple black capped sleeve shift dress and black court shoes, popped out at lunch time to get some nosh, and had stones thrown at me by some Muslim men .

Not nice.

Whilst shopping in Manchester last weekend I saw a woman dressed wearing hijab but also tight pvc leggings! Hardly modest.

Try living in parts of Bradford and being spat at, having stones thrown at you and being threatened with rape by gangs of Muslim youths because you're a "gori whore" for not covering up. And having the police refuse to treat it as a racially motivated attack.
It is not a choice for some women. It is oppressive. Pre-school children in some areas wear it. That saddens me. But mainly it makes me angry that men treat women with so little respect.

Interesting in light of another thread about mocking religion where there were many christians claiming that people are afraid to mock Islam - this for me is a case of Muslim women being delusional on 2 counts.

Delusional that they have "chosen" to wear head covering, not because of male pressure.

Or delusional because they wear it in respect of believing in rules imposed by a centuries old middle eastern warlord who invented a misogynistic religion to control people and further his own bloodthirsty aims.

clearly some of you don't have a clue about Islam ... and just spouting crap

if a woman has the right to walk around with less clothing then she also has the right to walk around fully covered

and no you don't get stoned to death for not covering .. where did you get this crap from?

if a woman is forced to cover by her husband, father etc that means the man is a Dick.. has nothing to do with the religion

and religion and culture and 2 different things

It’s a discussion were i can simultaneously hold two viewpoints equally. I believe a woman in the country I live should be able to wear clothing and feel empowered, I do not agree with supporting a world celebration when for many women “choice “ is a luxury not available.