The Bulger killers: was justice done?

[WannaBeWonderWoman]

Following on from previous thread which was filled.

What would have been the correct way to deal with these little boys who subjected a tiny two year old to protracted agony and unimaginable suffering then?

Interested to know what all the bleeding hearts on here believe should have happened? Whether they attended an adult court and were convicted of murder which they confessed to anyway, was this crueller to them than what they put that child through? They were well treated and even when they were serving their 'sentence' they were protected and given all they wanted (more than they would have got if they'd been in their own homes probably) and had all the help and therapy it was possible to give them. Did they suffer? You could actually argue that they benefitted from killing. They have to live with what they've done, yes, but if they did I find it hard to comprehend that Thompson especially (who came across as the leader in the interviews) can.

The Norwegian case which is often compared to this is nowhere similar IMO. The perpetrators were a similar age to their victim. They were 6 which is almost half the age V&T were and they wouldn't have been tried here anyway. Most importantly that crime was not premeditated or drawn out for hours like the many horrors inflicted on James.

He was the only victim here.

My mistake Harvey What I really meant was that he didn't get into trouble during his childhood, obviously his father's behaviour would have had an impact on his social and intellectual development.

Venables is clearly incapable of reform

He has reformed to the extent that there haven’t been any more toddlers dead at his hands.

Unfortunately he has now been revealed to have paedophilic tendencies which manifest in the form of watching/stockpiling child pornography. He seemingly struggles to control these urges.

Doesn’t mean the justice system was wrong to try to rehabilitate him aged ten, or that they could have predicted this outcome.

The other one, who came from a very chaotic background, appears to have kept his nose clean so far so is surely an example of rehabilitation working.

I describe them that way as I was jointly discussing them as boy perpetrators and the men who have been realised.

But there is a huge difference between being a boy and being a man, is all that is being said, you cannot conflate the two. Or perhaps I'm frothing at the mouth and need to calm down?

Sigh, this is going around in circles and appears to be a competition as to who can think up the most lurid way to wish children dead or rehash awful details of a case which is 25 years old.

Hiding thread now and would probably be for the best if it was deleted TBH.

Yeah... eldon im not conflating the two ... I was talking about two situations previously and wrote it like that rather than writing two separate posts that were basically identical...

It’s really not worth the frothy argument you think/want is there...

Ok bertie

Having just watched the expert discussing this on TM, I am so upset. She believes Venables in his present state is likely to commit a contact offence if given the opportunity and represents a clear danger to the public. He is now an adult sex offender. People need to stop going back to that child in 1993. He is no longer that 10 year old boy. He is an adult capable of doing serious harm to a child. I don't want lynch mobs so I believe the only option is for Venables to be detained for the rest of his life.

He has reformed to the extent that there haven’t been any more toddlers dead at his hands - sounds like something a politician would say after a massive balls up .

He hadn’t got peadophilic tendencies - he is a paedophile. And it’s not child pornography - it’s child abuse - please stop minimising.

Totally agree MissEliza

I absolutely detest the use of ‘child pornography’ - it implies there is consent like adult pornography. The is no such thing as child pornography it’s all child abuse . These children are being sexually assaulted and raped

Bertie you might want to avoid the news then too because it’s hopefully going to have a public enquiry into the case.

MissEliza. Yes, Venables has had 8 years of rehabilitation and counselling with probably top psychologists. Even after all this he was unable to control himself.

sounds like something a politician would say after a massive balls up .

Really? How? My statement was factually accurate. He hasn’t killed any more children. And as far as we know, the other one has never reoffended in any way.

He hadn’t got peadophilic tendencies - he is a paedophile. And it’s not child pornography - it’s child abuse - please stop minimising

I’m not minimising anything. I think he should be detained indefinitely.

But that is on account of current behaviour, I don’t think he should have had the key thrown away at 10 years of age.

I always wondered about the child they tried to take before James. The mother intervened and got him back.

I wonder if she called the police.

After watching Denise last night, I cannot feel sympathy for James killers. Making his death look like an accident means they DID understand the consequences.

If one of them had a dad in jail, then they know what happens when you commit a crime.

I absolutely detest the use of ‘child pornography’ - it implies there is consent like adult pornography

You can hate it all you like. But it doesn’t imply consent at all imo. It is a term that describes the form of abuse JV is taking part in - not a denial that abuse is taking place.

I think now the question is what danger does he pose to the public. When the boys were 10, the right thing to do was to put arrangements in place to make rehabilitation possible. I think clearly rehabilitation has failed. Supervision has failed. He needs to stay in custody in order to protect our children.

I also think that the parents have a lot to answer for whom also get a life of anonymity and looked after financially for life I would guess

Yeah lucky old them, getting a life of anonyminity must be so super fun?!?! There wouldn’t need to be such a high cost of idiotic people didn’t belive in mob justice and go after the families.

Strongvegetables - you may hate that term however it is widely used, even within the judicial system, in fact it is the term the judge used in his sentencing statement fr JV this time round, I have only ever heard on MN people so vehemently objecting to it. I totally understand why it doesn't feel the correct term to use but it isn't fair for people to criticise people on here for using it given that it is one of the correct terms for this type of crime.

I was saying the parents had a lot to answer for. Turning a blind eye and letting kids do, watch what they want. I’m aware Thompson had a troublesome childhood. The adults in their lives must feel partly to blame. Either way, I’ll save my sympathy for the Bulger family.

Can't believe that idiot journalist saying that if 10 year olds are said to know the difference between right and wrong then that translates that 10 year olds could sit on a jury - no it absolutely doesn't - knowing the difference between right and wrong is a world away from being able to tocess numerous pieces of conflicting evidence to assess of someone is guilty or not.

Coastal - you comment about 10 year olds not having the intellectual capacity to access numerous pieces of conflicting evidence etc is along the lines of the the rationale for the ECHR ruling that trying Venables and Thompson as adults was unfair.

QuiteLikely5 Thu 08-Feb-18 20:54:32
Was justice done?

No it wasn’t

Hth

This is arguably the most inane comment on the thread

I cannot believe how many people are still saying, "Now he's reoffended, he should be given life".

He already has a life sentence, as does Thompson.
He cannot be given "life" for possession/making images because that isn't within sentencing guidelines for that offence.
Venables may, in fact, be in prison for a lot longer than three years - & if he does get out, it will once again be "on licence" as he will continue to serve a life sentence.

They were tried, found guilty and given life. What fhe fuck else do you guilliotine knitters want?

Efforts to rehabilitate Venables have clearly failed & I hope he stays inside for considerably longer than three years. But this does not mean it was wrong to try.

One really sad thing I found out on the programme last night, a woman in a shop actually challenged the boys and even asked James if he was alright, as he looked down at the floor. He was close to being saved. If only he could have asked for help😪

They were tried, found guilty and given life. What fhe fuck else do you guilliotine knitters want?

Well, tabby - I think it's reasonable clear that some posters would have liked the 10 year olds executed by the state or their identities revealed so they can be murdered / tortured by vigilantes...

How depressing it must be to think some people are born evil - that means nothing can be done to stop this type of awful crime happening from time to time. (Unless of course we lock up for ever / kill these individuals before they commit a crime - presumably at the say so of the PP who can identify those who "look evil". The only hope there is to stop such an horrific thing from happening again is to identify how it able to happen in the first place. It is no where near as simple and straightforward as a bad childhood, it's not as simple as knowing right from wrong and impulse control it's a combination of lots of different things coming together to create the perfect storm of two disturbed, out of control children feeding off each other. Only by trying to unlock exactly what factors came together can you try to ensure that no one gets to that point in the future.