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Original poster

The Bulger killers: was justice done?

999 replies

WannaBeWonderWoman · 08/02/2018 00:07

Following on from previous thread which was filled.

What would have been the correct way to deal with these little boys who subjected a tiny two year old to protracted agony and unimaginable suffering then?

Interested to know what all the bleeding hearts on here believe should have happened? Whether they attended an adult court and were convicted of murder which they confessed to anyway, was this crueller to them than what they put that child through? They were well treated and even when they were serving their 'sentence' they were protected and given all they wanted (more than they would have got if they'd been in their own homes probably) and had all the help and therapy it was possible to give them. Did they suffer? You could actually argue that they benefitted from killing. They have to live with what they've done, yes, but if they did I find it hard to comprehend that Thompson especially (who came across as the leader in the interviews) can.

The Norwegian case which is often compared to this is nowhere similar IMO. The perpetrators were a similar age to their victim. They were 6 which is almost half the age V&T were and they wouldn't have been tried here anyway. Most importantly that crime was not premeditated or drawn out for hours like the many horrors inflicted on James.

He was the only victim here.

OP posts:
GnotherGnu · 09/02/2018 00:14

We obviously have different views... what thick/barbaric person would think those kids , now adults should of lived? Your obviously the sympathetic type.

Clearly, millions of people think this given that the people who really think we should have killed two children are a tiny minority.

And oh, the irony of someone accusing other people of being thick whilst demonstrating their own illiteracy.

Cronuts · 09/02/2018 00:17

@strongvegetables no I couldn't which was the point I made in my post. I think you're confused. Hmm

Sugarcoma · 09/02/2018 00:18

Banging on about other killers is, in MN's favourite parlance, classic "whatabout-ism". The reason James's killers are so notorious and why there was such a public frenzy is because they brutally tortured him - not just killed him. I don't believe there has ever been such a systematic torture and murder of a child since and if there was it would provoke similar outcry.

Those banging on about "they didn't know the consequences" - you mean prison? That isn't what deters most people from torture and murder. As pp said above, they knew exactly what they were doing to that baby, to the point - by the way - they even tried to cover up the crime by moving his body.

The point I cannot fathom, is how anyone can give even one tiny fuck about how the justice system treated those monsters? If you think justice was served, fine - I don't but we can agree to disagree - but why you would spend even a millisecond of brainpower questioning the "fairness" of their trial or any other such bollocks is beyond me.

Next time you start going down that road how about sparing a thought instead for James' mother and the anguish she goes through every single day?

Cronuts · 09/02/2018 00:19

@gnothergnu yeah I'm sure he goes around hiding mirrors. If he was truly rehabilitated then I don't see how he can live with himself, no normal person could.

Fontella · 09/02/2018 00:28

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GnotherGnu · 09/02/2018 00:28

Sugarcoma, everyone should give several fucks about how the justice system worked in this case, because it's in all our interests that trial should be fair. As soon as you start saying that you don't have to bother with a fair trial in relation to certain types of accusation, you exponentially increase the risk of innocent people getting punished for things they didn't do.

GnotherGnu · 09/02/2018 00:30

Cronuts, we come back to the proposition that in essence you are saying everyone guilty of murder should kill themselves at the first available opportunity. In fact, logically that should apply to everyone guilty of any serious offence, not just murder. But where precisely do you draw the line?

JediJim · 09/02/2018 00:34

I too believe that if it wasn’t James it would have been another child. I despise these two cretins, for the murder of that innocent young boy.

If they were rehabilated, they would have topped themselves by now. No normal , sane, rational person could live with the guilt. My only conclusion is that they aren’t that bothered at all, particularly Thompson. I hope they are haunted by their demons forever.

GnotherGnu · 09/02/2018 00:34

Fontella, the slavering way you detail what happened to James tells us more than you probably want to reveal about yourself. But, for all your moral indignation and protestations of sympathy, it's noticeable that you don't even have the courtesy to use the name his mother wants to be used.

Cronuts · 09/02/2018 00:35

@gnu I didn't say he should go and kill himself at the first opportunity did I so the rest of your post is irrelevant.

I said that if he is truly rehabilitated then I don't understand how he can live with what he has done. I couldn't live with it, could you?

Queenoftheblitz · 09/02/2018 00:36

I think they should have served in an adult prison once they reached 18. Eight years wasn't enough.
Concerns about their safety in prison are ridiculous - who worried about the safety of Huntley, Bellfield etc?

GnotherGnu · 09/02/2018 00:37

But if he shouldn't be able to live with what he has done, Cronuts, surely the only alternative is suicide? What else are you advocating?

GnotherGnu · 09/02/2018 00:38

Queen, at the time they went to prison, Huntley and Bellfield weren't just-turned 18 year olds with zero experience of living independently in the outside world.

chipvinegar · 09/02/2018 00:42

I disagree that if really rehabilitated they wouldn't be able to look in a mirror.

Surely rehabilitating child criminals would include acceptance, remorse, acknowledging the pain they inflicted, empathy for the victims and their families etc, BUT....eventually self forgiveness to move forward with their lives and away from the crime into being a positive member of society as an adult?

SuperBeagle · 09/02/2018 00:47

Cronuts has been crapping on about how they should've killed themselves since the beginning of the first thread. They've not had any greater insight/input.

Cronuts · 09/02/2018 00:47

@Gnu I'll tell you for a 3rd time in the hope that it'll sink in. I said I don't understand how as a reformed character he can live with what he's done. May I suggest you put the soapbox away and think very carefully before you accuse people of encouraging suicide.

GnotherGnu · 09/02/2018 00:49

Cronuts, repeating what you said doesn't explain it. What do you suggest reformed criminals should do if they shouldn't be able to live with what they've done?

BakedBeans47 · 09/02/2018 00:52

I completely agree gnu

As soon as you start saying that you don't have to bother with a fair trial in relation to certain types of accusation, you exponentially increase the risk of innocent people getting punished for things they didn't do.

Again, totally correct. And equally, people who did do things getting off with it.

This thread is depressing. So many people unjustifiably over-invested and unable to apply any sort of objective analysis whatsoever.

We need to learn where we went wrong and to get it right for the future.

chipvinegar · 09/02/2018 00:53

I don't think we will ever be able to understand what made two ten year old boys decide to kill a child that day. They initially planned to push a child in front of a bus apparently, so did have every intention of ending a child's life.

I somewhat wish that Venables would be kept in solitary during his sentence now but give an anonymous explanation of why they did what they did back then and why they didn't give James back when stopped. Why did they feel they had to kill him or so much hatred for a boy wanting his mum

Cronuts · 09/02/2018 00:56

I keep repeating myself as you're continually implying that I'm making a suggestion rather than a question.

We apparently have many child psychologists on this thread, I was wondering if one could explain how somebody who isn't a psychopath could compartmentalise in such a manner.

GnotherGnu · 09/02/2018 01:04

Cronuts, yet again, as you keep avoiding the question. You say that someone who has been rehabilitated following a serious crime shouldn't be able to live with themselves. What, therefore, do you state that they should do as an alternative to living with themselves?

Cronuts · 09/02/2018 01:05

@superbeagle you're a liar. I didn't mention suicide on the first thread at all, feel free to apologise for talking such crap. Oh and I'm a she by the way not a they Smile

Cronuts · 09/02/2018 01:10

So you can't see there's a difference between me saying i can't understand how they can live with it rather than saying they shouldn't be able to live with it?

I think you're deliberately misunderstanding me.

Fontella · 09/02/2018 01:17

Fontella, the slavering way you detail what happened to James tells us more than you probably want to reveal about yourself. But, for all your moral indignation and protestations of sympathy, it's noticeable that you don't even have the courtesy to use the name his mother wants to be used.

I am recounting how the child was murdered, as it has been documented in numerous reports, articles, documentaries and through the course of the trial, not embellishing fiction. Just refusing to minimise it and diminish it, as some seem to want to do. That's what they did and how they did it, so why not say so? It is the truth after all, not some whitewashed, sanitised version of it.

As for that smartarsed remark about the child's name - I'm old, tired and unwell and it's after 1am. I mistakenly typed two letters incorrectly. It's got nothing to do with your pompous assertion of lack of courtesy towards his mother and everything to do with a simple error.

There are no 'protestations of sympathy' here, but heartfelt sympathy for the child that was so brutally murdered and his bereaved parents. I really couldn't give a toss about supercilious apologist bullshit ... and if that's too 'slavering' for you, then I suggest you skip over my posts, and I'll do the same with yours.

Queenoftheblitz · 09/02/2018 01:20

Gnother, this was the problem. Total emphasis was given to their rehabilitation and none to their punishment. Our judicial system is set up to provide both and as James' mother said, they were not punished.

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